Can anyone tell mewhen we are going to get the next version on connect.there are so many building since 7000 flying about the net, when is microsoft going to let us try one

According to some website (Neowin in particular) April 10th 2009 has been rumoured for the next build to be sent to beta testers. However, like most things this date can probably change so it is just a case of being patient.John Barnett MVP: Windows XP Associate Expert: Windows Desktop Experience: Web: http://www.winuser.co.uk Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org

John_Barnett said: like most things this date can probably change so it is just a case of being patient. There is something that I cannot understand :It looks like build 7057 is the RC version.Why can't we have it right away ?What can possibly withhold MS ? It is in their own interest, or not ?

7048 was stamped as RC, too. Don't bother getting hyped or ruffling your feathers until Microsoft actually annouces the date they're releasing the RC. If it actually is RC, they could be testing it for potential show-stoppers. They probably want to test for bugs they might have introduced in the install routine and check for errors that could make the RC unbearable for many people.

I would appreciate it if everyone could freely get all the builds. I find it not needed and stupid to limit a certain build to a certain group.

Picsoe,The problem is too many people 'speculate' While I agree it is frustrating that we are not getting the RC build right away, for that matter will 7048, 7057 or even a higher build be the RC that we finally get? The only people that know for sure are Microsoft and, for their own reasons, they are not sharing it with us. That, unfortunately, is their prerogative, after all, it is 'their' software not ours.How many people jump when they see that a new build has been 'leaked' and immediately log on to the nearest torrent/warz site to download it? Once they have it out comes the old 'carrot and stick' or the old childrens playground taunt 'i have it and you haven't! Many of the websites are eager to get leaked news of a build that has found its way onto a torrent/warz site, eager to be the first to publish the 'latest' screenshots. Where does it get them? Nowhere, it is simply a one day wonder, after the news has been read, it is just as quickly forgotten. My own website has a section on Windows 7. Currently it has just 5 items, yes i could include more 'fixes' but what would be the point on beta software. By the time Windows 7 RTM'd those fixes would be usless. I try not to speculate because, frankly, it doesn't get you anywhere.As a beta tester I have seen two versions of Windows 7, the pre-release and the current build 7000. We are approximately 5 months into a beta and they are talking RC. Yes Windows 7 is pretty stable, is it better than Vista? - well possibly. The WoW factor comes in the form of eye candy which is a fickle way of looking at any product simply because it may look good, but it may not work as good and most people would have purchased the product on simple look alone.I too am disappointed that we haven't had more build. I also, personally, think the RC build is far to early; however, we are in a recession and one has to ask the question, is this producting being rushed simply to bring in much needed revenue? If this is the case, and i've said this numerous times before, Windows 7 will be heading the same way as Vista!John Barnett MVP: Windows XP Associate Expert: Windows Desktop Experience: Web: http://www.winuser.co.uk Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org

NetworkPro,I stared beta testing in the latter stages ofWindows 98. My first full test, from start to finish, was Windows ME. At that time only official beta testers got their hands on the matest build. We also didn't have high speed broadband, so each new build had to be sent via carrier to every beta test. Up until a year ago I still had almost 20 or so Windows ME beta builds (CDs) stacked in my cupboard. Nowadays Microsoft prefers to open the whole beta up to the public. I suspect that the public comments would be 'Wow this is great, when can I buy it' whereas the official beta tester would be saying 'this is wrong, that needs attending to, and why have you taken this feature out when everyone uses it' In short Microsoft get more 'positive' feedback from the general public than they do from beta testers. Yes beta testers give Microsoft all the technical details of faults, but it is the general public that, inevitably, will be the 'purchasing power' behind any new operating system, and what better way to 'woo' that purchasing power than getting them involved in a beta program.John Barnett MVP: Windows XP Associate Expert: Windows Desktop Experience: Web: http://www.winuser.co.uk Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org

John_Barnett said: How many people jump when they see that a new build has been 'leaked' and immediately log on to the nearest torrent/warz site to download it? Once they have it out comes the old 'carrot and stick' or the old childrens playground taunt 'i have it and you haven't! Many of the websites are eager to get leaked news of a build that has found its way onto a torrent/warz site, eager to be the first to publish the 'latest' screenshots. Where does it get them? Nowhere, it is simply a one day wonder, after the news has been read, it is just as quickly forgotten. My own website has a section on Windows 7. Currently it has just 5 items, yes i could include more 'fixes' but what would be the point on beta software. By the time Windows 7 RTM'd those fixes would be usless. I try not to speculate because, frankly, it doesn't get you anywhere.As a beta tester I have seen two versions of Windows 7, the pre-release and the current build 7000. We are approximately 5 months into a beta and they are talking RC. Yes Windows 7 is pretty stable, is it better than Vista? - well possibly. The WoW factor comes in the form of eye candy which is a fickle way of looking at any product simply because it may look good, but it may not work as good and most people would have purchased the product on simple look alone.I too am disappointed that we haven't had more build. I also, personally, think the RC build is far to early; however, we are in a recession and one has to ask the question, is this producting being rushed simply to bring in much needed revenue? If this is the case, and i've said this numerous times before, Windows 7 will be heading the same way as Vista! John,Firstly I'd be interested as to why you think we need more builds? As you allude to they "leak" to the Internet, but the playground mentatlity gets those who want it to them and the rest of us who support and use 7000 get on just fine.If Microsoft released too many builds, trying to ensure (a) that these formus for a start were based around one version would be a nightmare (b) ensuring that feedback was fluent - i.e. which build, what platform, where did you get it, etc would be a headache and (c) getting the builds on the internet and dealing with downloads (I'm sure you know that the first time 7000 was officially posted it inundated the servers) would again be a labourous experience, only slowing down an RC.As for the numbers and is it more stable...I'd suggest you look at the benchmarks Mark Russinovich did and explained in detail in his springboard VRT - http://technet.microsoft.com/windows/dd459187.aspx IMHO I don't think they are pushing the RC to simply get it out there in a recession to build revenue. Everyone knows that Vista - pre SP1 and possibly Pre SP2 has had some "teething" issues and W7 can be viewed as a potential solution to some of those issues - recession has nothing to do with that, yet alot of folk seem quick to blame recession when they can - almost as a scapegoat of blamers per se.Lastly, I'm not sure how you can say "...heading the same way as Vista" as the majority of the IT Pro population and even IW population who have downloaded W7 are happy even with the beta, whereas Vista wasn't so...That's quite a laborious statement...Maybe because you are an XP MVP you don't want people to upgrade?Justin

John_Barnett said: My own website has a section on Windows 7. Currently it has just 5 items, yes i could include more 'fixes' but what would be the point on beta software. By the time Windows 7 RTM'd those fixes would be usless. I try not to speculate because, frankly, it doesn't get you anywhere.John,Beta software is simply early release software it isn't completely different to that of what is released. Furthermore, if you read the E7 blog:http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2009/02/26/some-changes-since-beta.aspxhttp://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2009/03/13/a-few-more-changes-from-beta-to-rc.aspxyou'll see they state exactly what it is they're changing and also the differences and nuances cutting out what you refer to as speculation, therefore taking us all exactly where we want to go and where lots want to be with W7, hence loads of blog postings, videos, how-tos, etc, all of which WILL be relevant when W7 releases and won't be useless.Justin

dutchie027 said: As for the numbers and is it more stable...I'd suggest you look at the benchmarks Mark Russinovich did and explained in detail in his springboard VRT - http://technet.microsoft.com/windows/dd459187.aspx IMHO I don't think they are pushing the RC to simply get it out there in a recession to build revenue. Everyone knows that Vista - pre SP1 and possibly Pre SP2 has had some "teething" issues and W7 can be viewed as a potential solution to some of those issues - recession has nothing to do with that, yet alot of folk seem quick to blame recession when they can - almost as a scapegoat of blamers per se.Lastly, I'm not sure how you can say "...heading the same way as Vista"...Well, dutchie, I am eager to see Win7 RTM too. But I am always offended when I perceive information presented as bona-fide fact to be nothing but disguised marketing hype. I suppose you would defend it as otherwise, but in the following, I can see it no other way: Curious George said: To date, we have fixes in the pipeline for nearly 2,000 bugs in Windows code (not in third party drivers or applications) that caused crashes or hangs. While many Beta customers have said they are very happy with the quality of Windows 7, we are working to make it even better by making sure we are fixing the issues experienced by such broad and significant usage. To date, we have recorded over 10,000,000 device installations and over 75% of these were able to use drivers provided in box (that is no download necessary). The remaining devices were almost all served by downloading drivers from Windows Update and by direct links to the manufacturer's web site. We've recorded the usage of over 2.8M unique plug-and-play device identifiers. Your Opinion Counts: How you helped changed Windows 7 10,000,000 device installations I thought there were in excess of 2.5 million authorized publicbeta downloads, each permitted to be duplicated 10 times. That could mean in excess of 25 million legal public installations. Obviously 25M > 10M. So, what exactly are we referring to here with this huge 10M number? What is meant by device installation anyway? Maybe a single computer contains hundreds of devices? Even if it only represents one device,4 bootups x 2.5 M computers = 10 M computer bootups. Four bootups in two months? Only!?2.8M unique plug-and-play device identifiersGiven that multiple PnP device IDs may (and typically do) exist in a single PnP or PCI card, exactly what does this number mean? Did you know ID 0B0C is your fan? Even as stated, that number represents approximately onedevice per eachdownloaded beta. You know, for example,every MAC address is unique.fixes in the pipeline for nearly 2,000 bugs in WindowsThat's encouraging. But how many bugs were actually identified? Only 2000? Does in the pipeline mean they will be fixed? These were the ones that causedcrashes or hangs; what about those that just interfered with operation? And how many complaints have been discounted altogether?"The lure the fisherman throws the most, it's the one that catches the most fish."That tells us plenty about the fisherman. Little about the lure. And nothingabout the fish.Pardon my skepticism. I studied graduate mathematics. Or maybe I'm just a fisherman.

@ egads:That 2.5 million figure was what Microsoft ORIGINALLY was planning to do. That was before they changed their minds about it and kept the download servers active until Feb 12th. I don't know of any specific stats as to how many people got keys, or how many times the ISO was downloaded. So that 10 million figure - doesn't mean too much. Some people only have it on one machine, some have it on multiple. Some - like yourself- installed it and then removed it. It would seem to me that 2.8 million unique devices registered. It kinda gives a bit of perspective as to the monumentally epic task it is to build an OS like Windows. I'll wager OSX doesn't have anywhere near as many possible bits of hardware to support.The actual number of bugs identified - that would be hard to say without access to Microsoft's inner circles. Those that are "In the pipeline" are probably scheduled to be fixed. Those that only "interfered" or got in the way - I'd guess that would depend on the severity of the problem. If I was in Microsoft's shoes, I'd work on the issues that resulted in crashes and hangs before I'd worry about stuff like whether or not cover art gets updated in WMP12 when you go out to find album info... If there's time after the crashingand hanging bugsget fixed, then sure... Let's hammer out the small stuff. I'll also bet they're giving a higher priority to those bugs and issues that can be reproduced on demand than those elusive, once in a blue moon issues that can't be reproduced easily.

who will be able to download the rc1- will we be able to? like we did this beta? Will Microsoft announce it somewhere so we can get it? I would really like to test the rc1robin

dutchie,My interpretation of being an MVP, and someone will no doubt correct me if i'm wrong, is that the MVP not only uses his/her knowledge to answer posts on this and other newsgroups, but also acts as Microsoft's eyes and ear, bringing to Microsoft's attention, where applicable, problems and concerns of their paying customers. This I hope I have done to the best of my ability. From the newsgroups I have frequented the general concensus has been 'why so few builds?' Looking at previous betas there were far more build than are currently available for Windows 7. As I have pointed out how many builds Microsoft releases is their prerogative, it has nothing to do with us testers, but even so the beta newsgroups are full of requests asking 'when will we see a new build.'I've indicated that Windows 7 is pretty stable, but there are many testers that have now ceased to test Windows 7 simply because the build is getting too old. My main complaint on this issue is the fact that, while testers contantly send in bug reports for Windows 7, the currentl build that we have is out of date. Many bugs are simply filed as 'not reproducible' Why? The simple answer is because Microsoft are using a different build to the one we are using, in some cases, 10 or more builds in advance of the beta testers. Of course the bugs are no longer reproducible, the bugs were probably inadvertantly fixed by the latest build, the latest build that beta testers simply don't have. In the end some, not all, of the testers come to the conclusion that they are, effectively, 'flogging a dead horse.' What is the point of sending in a bug report from an aging beta build when you know exactly what the answer is going to be - not reproducible! I have around 8 or 9 emails regarding bugs I have sent in with the request of 'can you please test on the latest build.' What latest build? I simply don't have it, so cannot test to see if the bug(s) have been rectified. There are probably thousands of testers in the same position.I agree that too many builds could cause problems with feedback, and that it also would put strain on Microsoft's servers. In answer to that some would say, reduce the number of testers. If you want hundreds of thousands of testers then you need to support them, if you can't support them then your only option is to reduce the circle of people who do the testing. That is pure economics, you don't have to be Eientstein to work that one out.When I stated that the RC build was being released far to early I was giving an opinion. You, obviously, disagree and, of course, you are quite entitled to your own opinion on the matter. All I can say is that on this particular issue we shall have to agree to disagree. Only time will tell.I have never met Mark Russinovich personally, however, I have read and listened to his many podcasts. He is extremely knowledgeable and makes interesting reading. Benchmarking of any piece of software is extremely useful for those that understand the technicalities of benchmarking, however, Mark is a Microsoft employee. The benchmarking of the operating system would be far more meaningful if it were to be conducted by an independent body. You have probably already seen the somewhat dergoatory comments made in the newsgroups (sadly i don't have any links to hand) regarding IE 8.0 being far faster than Firefox and Google Chrome. I don't use Firefox or Chrome, but I also don't find IE 8.0 particularly fast either. Of course, again, the source, for this trumpet blowing is Microsoft, not, as one would expect, an independant research insitute. When I buy a new car do I beleive what the manufacture says about fuel consumption? Of course not becaue nine times out of ten the manufacturer is totally wrong. This is why Microsoft get so much bad press because people think, rightly or wrongly, that Microsoftis trying to pull the wool over their eyes. The truth never hurt anyone. A few little white lies can do irrepairable damage, you only have to look at how long it took Microsoft to recognise that Vista was a disaster. It is the paying public that make or break a product, regardless of how much research and development has gone into the project or how many beta testers are used if the paying public don't like it then it is a disaster.I've been an MVP for 8 years and, yes, my original MVP award was based on my contribution to Windows XP, but i've also contributed to Windows Vista, Microsoft Office, Internet Explorer 6, 7 & 8 and a host of other applications, not forgetting Windows 7. Do I use Windows XP? The answer is simple, No I don't. I have it installed on a Virtual Machine simply for the purpose of techncial support for my websites. If i currently use XP once a month that is about all, so your suggestion that I don't want people to upgrade is way of the mark. I am extremely happy with Windows Vista and, no doubt, I will be extremely happy with Windows 7 when it finally RTMs.I am a great believer in telling it how it is. For a long time now MVP's have been branded as the puppets of Microsoft, they are not. I, like most other MVPs, are not employed by Microsoft. While I can and will spring to the defence of Microsoft if i believe they are being unjustly targeted, I can, and will, be just as scathing when I believe they are not doing enough to help. The MVPs role is to be helpful. Over the years I hope I have been just that, if I haven't then I have failed.John Barnett MVP: Windows XP Associate Expert: Windows Desktop Experience: Web: http://www.winuser.co.uk Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org

Build 7057 is just a candidate for the Release Candidate, so to say, which MS thinks still requires further testing to see if it is fit to become the actual RC. If you browse forums, you'll see that it isn't quite up to it and has still a few tiny bugs (e.g. Aero Graphics in WinSat not being calculated properly), so the actual RC will be a later build.

People will also be sending feedback about features Microsoft knows they broke. If Microsoft releases, say, 7022, and knows that WDS is broken in that build, do they need 800 messages about it? No. And let's not forget that public releases of interum releases that are slightly unstable could generate some bad press. Then, on top of all that, people will likely be sending duplicate feedback messages for every build. It's probably a bit smarter of them to not release all interim builds to the public at large. Build 7000Add the classic start menu. Build 7022Still no classic start menu... Build 7048Why hasn't the classic start menu been added yet? Build 7057If you don't add it now it might not get properly tested later! Build 7061I thought you were listening to feedback? Add the classic start menu! I suspect that the public comments would be 'Wow this is great, when can I buy it' whereas the official beta tester would be saying 'this is wrong, that needs attending to, and why have you taken this feature out when everyone uses it' Microsoft ended up listening to people who said the "needy state" taskbar button animation wasn't attention grabbing enough. Who's to say they couldn't use a few more "this is great, now don't touch it" messages? :-)

Vistaline said: Microsoft ended up listening to people... I doubt it.I genuinely do not believe Our Opinion Counts. It's one thing to submit as a beta guinea-pig. Quite another to actually have some say-so. When Microsoft advertised this would be a new era of open discourse, I waited to see...In the article I quoted above, notice Microsoft has not disclosed how many betas are actually installed. Why not? I did not want to distract with a conjecture in that post, but OK, I'll do it now. I think their carefully nebulous wording indicates 2.8M or less betas actually got installed. I arrive at that because a LAN card is a PnP/PCI device, and its MAC address is unique. So they recorded 2.8M unique MACs, that's all. They just want to suggest there's a lot more interest and activity.To me, theirinspection of 2000 or so show-stopper bugs is nothing but a continuation of the evolution of Vista. Which btw, now has a SP2 RC that includes 700 new fixes that are undoubtedly part of the 2000 just mentioned.But where's the public discussion of the accumulated wishlist itemssubmitted by all us geeks?

If MS is listening to us, they wouldn't be making paying subscribers wait so long for a new build. Don't get me wrong, I am not asking for all the builds to be released, but at least give us a new build maybe once a month. Maybe some companies have to test their software to make sure the changes to the UAC will not affect the updated versions that we are developing. Just look at build 7000. It took about a month after it was put together for Microsoft to allow us to get a chance to test it. Honestly, Windows 7 beta has been great, but it does take time to make sure software is created to work with Windows.Jason

Unbelievable.

DarienHawk67 said: Unbelievable.I hope that's not directed at me.I am only asking for straight info(like John's). Not sourcecode!...well, on second thought...

Vistaline said: Build 7000Add the classic start menu. Build 7022Still no classic start menu... Build 7048Why hasn't the classic start menu been added yet? Build 7057If you don't add it now it might not get properly tested later! Build 7061I thought you were listening to feedback? Add the classic start menu!Why do you need the classic start menu? Technology, as we're all aware of changes over time. Office 2007 doesn't have taskbars, but someone has created a program to bring them back if you'd like. Realise the changes being made are beneficial to technologists like all of us and bringing back the classic start menu...what is that going to do, in all honesty? Delay the release, add more code, slow it down more...

dutchie027 said: Why do you need the classic start menu? Technology, as we're all aware of changes over time. Office 2007 doesn't have taskbars, but someone has created a program to bring them back if you'd like. Realise the changes being made are beneficial to technologists like all of us and bringing back the classic start menu...what is that going to do, in all honesty? Delay the release, add more code, slow it down more... Hey... At least they're NOT demanding a return to Program Manager... {shudder}

I was just using the classic start menu as an example, it's a common request.

@ VsitalineWhy not going back to DOS ?

Egads I doubt it. I genuinely do not believe Our Opinion Counts. It's one thing to submit as a beta guinea-pig. Quite another to actually have some say-so. When Microsoft advertised this would be a new era of open discourse, I waited to see... In the article I quoted above, notice Microsoft has not disclosed how many betas are actually installed. Why not? I did not want to distract with a conjecture in that post, but OK, I'll do it now. I think their carefully nebulous wording indicates 2.8M or less betas actually got installed. I arrive at that because a LAN card is a PnP/PCI device, and its MAC address is unique. So they recorded 2.8M unique MACs, that's all. They just want to suggest there's a lot more interest and activity. To me, their inspection of 2000 or so show-stopper bugs is nothing but a continuation of the evolution of Vista. Which btw, now has a SP2 RC that includes 700 new fixes that are undoubtedly part of the 2000 just mentioned. But where's the public discussion of the accumulated wishlist items submitted by all us geeks? The source for the information in the Our Opinion Counts article goes into much more detail about the process for determining how feedback is collected and used. Feedback and Engineering Windows 7Thank You for testing Windows 7 Beta Ronnie Vernon MVP

I read on MSFN that the Windows RC version for the public is scheduled for the last week of May 2009.That means almost half a year between the initial beta-7000 and the RC.I cannot wait that long, I should have been able to evaluate in between builds (7022 or 7048 or 7057 or 7061)- I am going back toWindows XPand I will stay there because I know what it is capable of.Sorry for Windows 7, but 5 months between the initial beta and the first RC without any intermediate available test-builds is not serious. I have to be able to test things and make up my mind for the near future of my computer activities.That is why I will go back to XP, that is at least settled now.I will wait until Windows 8 before to change again.Beta build 7000looked promising to me, but there has been too many builds afterwards of which I do not have any insight.The final Windows 7 is too foggy for me today.

Picsoe said: I read on MSFN that the Windows RC version for the public is scheduled for the last week of May 2009.That means almost half a year between the initial beta-7000 and the RC.I cannot wait that long, I should have been able to evaluate in between builds (7022 or 7048 or 7057 or 7061)- I am going back toWindows XPand I will stay there because I know what it is capable of.Sorry for Windows 7, but 5 months between the initial beta and the first RC without any intermediate available test-builds is not serious. I have to be able to test things and make up my mind for the near future of my computer activities.That is why I will go back to XP, that is at least settled now.I will wait until Windows 8 before to change again.Beta build 7000looked promising to me, but there has been too many builds afterwards of which I do not have any insight.The final Windows 7 is too foggy for me today. So, because Microsoft granted the privilege to use, test out, and provide input into a new, advanced operating system, you are upset because you cant wait for a candidate build that is close toif notactual release code. Did I get that right? Five months is too long to wait! Wait for what? A FREE release candidate that will give you an upper hand on usage and administration of the next OS that will populate most users desktops? A FREE release candidate that will allow you unfettered usage for its pre-programmed life span? Have you seen any of the other builds? Build 7022 had a few explorer issues that were not present in build 7000. Build 7057 is not ready for primetime as a left-over text box appears after you boot the system. It is not only in Microsofts best interest to ensure that the release candidate is a clean, polished build, it is also in the beta testers best interest. To do otherwise would irresponsible of Microsoft. If you think you should be entitled to any other interim builds, then sign up for a TechNet or MSDN subscription. If you are in IT, have your company do it for you. I agree. Go back to XP. You are not ready to test Windows 7 (in its later iterations), nor is it ready for you.

@DarienHawk67:C'mon, lighten up on him. It's easy for you to say that. You have all the goodies, don't you? Read his emotional plea, not his literal words. @Ronnie:When I quoted Your Opinion Counts: How you helped changed Windows 7, maybe my focus was not properly emphasized. My point was (and is), there's absolutely nothing in that article that discusses my opinion. Nothing.Justdistorted numbers. Honestly, I'm insulted to the point of nausea.Regarding your reference to Feedback and Engineering Windows 7, let's just try to repeat what we've learned from this article. From its pith, I extract that Microsoft is engineering a project, making some tradeoffs, and will ultimately ship. Where in there do you see any explicit analysis (even examples) of our Feedback? In fact, it reads like a treatise of justification for dismissing our input. Here are quotes that touch that topic: data is not a substitute for good judgment or an excuse to make a decision one way or another Data is an important element of making decisions, but not a substitute for clear product goals There is the reality that all decisions need to be made in the context of the broader goals of the release We are always humbled by the responsibility we have The first 3 points tell me Microsoft is ignoring our input. The last just makes me nauseous.

Picsoe said: Beta build 7000looked promising to me, but there has been too many builds afterwards of which I do not have any insight.The final Windows 7 is too foggy for me today.Gee.. My crystal ball is kinda foggy as well. I have no idea what the next RC is really going to be like, nor what the finished product will be either. But that's NOT going to stop me from using Win 7 as it is now. When the RC comes out, I'll download it and I'll be using that one. And when the final version is released... Well... We'll just have to see what happens between now and then. I'll probably be buying a copy somewhere along the line. But in the mean time, I'm not gonna sweat the newer non-public interim builds - I'm really not willing to download something that may have been spiked with something nasty. I'll stick with the official releases.

You know, this is almost sounding like /. And, if I am not mistaken, I recollect that bothe Egads and Piscoe have been posting alot of negativity and combativenees about MSFT and Win 7. Pointing out bugs or features we would like to see and trashing Win 7 are 2 completely different things. And I doubt that posters such as Egads and Piscoe are soley playing the 'devil's advocate' roles on this forumI am mostly an everyday user. I have a real job during the day and play with computing at night. I have, however, made some gadgets and widgets, developed several web sites and done some minor programming. But, as a general user, I think 7 is far superior (already) to Vista, although my Vista Sp2 seems to be quite swell. Win 7 IS good and I look forward to running the FREE RC when it is available just like I like the FREE XP RC and the FREE Vista RC and FREE Office 2007 and FREE Visual Studio Pro, and FREE SQL and on-and-onDave

Thanks Microsoft for all of the FREE software to use over the years to included multiple OS's, Office V. Studio, SQL, Expression and bug off all you negatrons

Yes, we know lonewolf = DaveEC *.Ironically, whatever.your.name, we are discussing concerns that the policies that blemished Vista are being extended to Win7. None of us want that. Except for your intolerance of whinners and complainers, do you have anything to contribute?* page 3 and page 6

egads said:@Ronnie:When I quoted Your Opinion Counts: How you helped changed Windows 7, maybe my focus was not properly emphasized. My point was (and is), there's absolutely nothing in that article that discusses my opinion. Nothing.Justdistorted numbers. Honestly, I'm insulted to the point of nausea.Regarding your reference to Feedback and Engineering Windows 7, let's just try to repeat what we've learned from this article. From its pith, I extract that Microsoft is engineering a project, making some tradeoffs, and will ultimately ship. Where in there do you see any explicit analysis (even examples) of our Feedback? In fact, it reads like a treatise of justification for dismissing our input. Here are quotes that touch that topic: data is not a substitute for good judgment or an excuse to make a decision one way or another Data is an important element of making decisions, but not a substitute for clear product goals There is the reality that all decisions need to be made in the context of the broader goals of the release We are always humbled by the responsibility we have The first 3 points tell me Microsoft is ignoring our input. The last just makes me nauseous. Hi egads The following is being written with my tongue planted firmly in my cheek. Have you ever heard the term "Quoting a statement out of context"? This is a technique used by less than reputable journalists who manipulate statements to fit their own personal agenda. (Sometimes called yellow journalism) Your quote: data is not a substitute for good judgment or an excuse to make a decision one way or another The original statement: We have a variety of tools we draw on to help inform the decision making process. A key element that we have focused on quite a bit in Windows 7 is the role of data in making decisions. Everything we do is a judgment call as ultimately product development is about deciding what to get done from an infinite set of possibilities, but the role of data is essential and is something that has become far more routine and critical. It is important to be super cleardata is not a substitute for good judgment or an excuse to make a decision one way or another, but it most definitely informs the decision. This is especially true in an era where the data is not only a survey or focus group, but often includes a sampling of millions of people using Windows over the course of an extended time period. --- Your quote: Data is an important element of making decisions, but not a substitute for clear product goals The original statement: Fast forward to the development of Windows 7 and were focused on using data to help inform decisions we make. This data takes many forms and helps in many ways. I know a lot of folks have questions about the data is it representative, how does it help fix things people should be using but dont, what about doing new things, and so on. Data is an important element of making decisions, but not a substitute for clear product goals, meaningful customer engagement, and working across the ecosystem to bring Windows 7 to customers. ---Your quote: There is the reality that all decisions need to be made in the context of the broader goals of the release The original statemant: In the context of the whole release, how important is this issue? There is the reality that all decisions need to be made in the context of the broader goals of the release. Each release stands for a set of core scenarios and principles that define the release. By definition it means that in each release some things will change more than others and some things might not change at all. Or said another way, some parts of the system will be actively worked on towards a set of goals while we keep other parts of the system more or less stable release over release. It means that things you might want to see changed might not change, just because that is an area of the product were not mucking with during Windows 7. As weve talked about, for Windows 7 we put a lot of work into various elements of system performance. Aside from the obvious scenario planning and measurement, we also took very seriously areas of the system that needed to change to move us forward. Likewise, areas of the system where the performance gain would not be significant enough to warrant change do not change that much. We carry this forward through the whole cycle as we receive data and telemetry. ---Your quote: We are always humbled by the responsibility we have The original statement: These are just a few of the factors that go into considering a product change. As you can see, this is not something that we take lightly and a lot goes into each and every change. We consider all the inputs we have and consider all the data we can gather. In some ways it is easy to freeze thinking about the decisions we must make to release Windows 7if you think too hard about a decision because you might start to worry about a billion people relying on something and it gets very tricky. So we use data to keep ourselves objective and to keep the decision process informed and repeatable. We are always humbled by the responsibility we have. --- Using this same technique, I could selectively quote one of your previous posts in this thread and make it fit a particular agenda. You can tell that Egads is a real Microsoft fanboy, especially when he writes things like: I am eager to see Win7 RTM too --- If you want to see some reference that Microsoft does actually listen to feedback, take a look at the following full quotes. A few more changes from Beta to RC Right-clicking on the Control Panel icon on the taskbar in Beta revealed a noticeably sparse Jump List. A few people such as Britney told us Should most recently used items be displayed in the Jump List of the CPL when pinned to the taskbar? Something should be shown and nothing is there right now. In RC the Control Panel Jump List offers quick access to recently used items. By default PowerShell in Beta launched a streamlined console. Customers could load optional modules via distinct shortcuts in the Start Menu. We heard from you that this was a confusing experience. Additionally, PowerShell did not surface a way to launch related tasks such as the Integrated Scripting Environment (ISE) from within their console experience. PowerShell now has a robust Jump List that affords a method to load modules, launch the ISE and open documentation. Rajeev made us smile with his comment, Being able to add my Remote Desktop shortcut to the taskbargood. Saving settings and showing them in the Recent items sectionawesome. Being able to pin the connections in the Jump List, so they always appearpriceless! Well, Rajeev and others who shared this request, you will be enjoy this functionality in RC. More here: Some Changes Since Beta for the RC 1. Windows Flip (ALT + TAB) with Aero Peek Weve received overwhelmingly positive feedback about Aero Peek and how it helps customers switch windows with increased confidence. Daniel wrote to tell us Im wondering why Peek was never implemented for the ALT + TAB window. The thumbnails look/behave the same way as the taskbar thumbnails when you hover the mouse over them. It seems logical that they would exhibit the peek behavior, too. We decided to make this change since we heard many requests for it. One can still quickly flip between and cycle through running windows using the ALT+TAB keys, but when more window information is needed Aero Peek will appear. This is triggered by a time delay as you pause while keyboarding through running windows. 2. Windows Logo + <#> keyboard shortcut Enthusiasts often ask us for more keyboard shortcuts to simplify their common tasks. Efficiency is key. Weve answered with a very powerful new keyboard shortcut for the taskbar that may just alienate mice everywhere. Pressing Windows Logo + <#> (where <#> corresponds to an items order in Quick Launch) in Vista would simply launch the item. As part of our unification of Quick Launch with the taskband in Windows 7, we now beef up the shortcut so it can both launch and switch. Mudassir opened a bug to say The flashing is not obvious enough to get user's attention. Sometime I don't even notice it. It flashes for a little bit and then stops. If I am away the icon flashes and stops before I come back. The icon is not noticeable. Weve made three changes that should address the issue. 4. Taskbar Open With Quick Launch always supported the ability to drop a file onto a pinned program and have it open with that program. The new taskbar on the other hand, always treats a drop as a pin command. Drop a program and the program is pinned. Drop a file and the file will be pinned under its respective programs Jump List and that program automatically gets pinned to the taskbar. It was important for us to keep drag/drop consistent. We believe that for most cases people will open files through the desktop by just double-clicking them or from the Jump List and the default program will open. However, there are some scenarios when a customer wants to open a certain file type with another program. We heard this feedback and decided to revive Open With drag/drop on the taskbar with a keyboard modifier. One can hold down SHIFT and drop the file on the desired program. Finally, for those looking for some appreciation: Our Next Engineering MilestoneMany posts start with a thank you and I want to start this post with an extra special thank you on behalf of the entire Windows team for all the installs and usage we are seeing of the Windows 7 Beta. Weve had millions of installations of Windows 7 from which we are receiving telemetry, which is simply incredible. And from those who click on the Send Feedback button we are receiving detailed bug reports and of course many suggestions. There is simply no way we could move from Beta through Final Release of Windows 7 without this type of breadth coverage and engagement from you in the development cycle. Theres been such an incredible response, with many folks even blogging about how they have moved to using Windows 7 Beta on all their machines and have been super happy. The question we get most often is if the Beta expires in August what will I doI dont want to return to my old [sic] operating system. For a Beta release, that is quite a compliment and were very appreciative of such a kind response. Regards,Thank You for testing Windows 7 Beta Ronnie Vernon MVP

Struck a raw nerve, did I Ronnie?I guess we'll need to leave it to each reader to decide if what I quoted was: out of context the plain truthC'mon Ronnie,those 1000 words you painstakingly transcribed from that article, the words that surround those quotes, they were predictable.Boil it to the residue and what is left is what I quoted. The effect.You will defend Microsoft's position that clear product goals and broader goals of the release trump overData andFeedback?That is blind faith, Ronnie. Nowhere in that article has theirnotion of goals been disclosed.And since youavoided it altogether -Just how do you explain inYour Opinion Counts that no opinion was even mentioned?...Oh, nevermind.Ronnie, whether you recognize it or not, we are in fact on the same team. Just, our jobs are different, that's all. Please beassured that while I am definitely no fan of Microsoft Board of Directors, I am indeed a Microsoft fanboy.That does put us on the same team, doesn't it Ronnie?

egads said: Struck a raw nerve, did I Ronnie?HiYes, you certainly did. I have a real problem when someone tries to take a few words or one line of text out of a complete statement in an effort todistort its intended meaning. The only time someone will typically resort to this type of behavior is when their agenda or position is very weak. Their hope is that anyone reading theirmessage will take itat face value because they know that if the reader were to perform any research, they would see just how skewed and untruthfulthe out of contextstatements are. I guess we'll need to leave it to each reader to decide if what I quoted was: out of context the plain truth That is exactly why I responded to show just how you reached your so called "plain truth". You will defend Microsoft's position that clear product goals and broader goals of the release trump over Data and Feedback? That is blind faith, Ronnie. Nowhere in that article has their notion of goals been disclosed.I'm not defending anyone, my only goal is to make sure that everyone is treated fairly. I will be the first to criticize anyone, even Microsoft, if I find a fault.The Engineering Windows 7 Blog is an ongoing conversation between the beta product teams and customers. If you want to see their goals for this release, you will need to go back to the Beginning of the conversation, not just open the book and start reading at chapter 45. And since you avoided it altogether - Just how do you explain in Your Opinion Counts that no opinion was even mentioned? That blog post was meant to prove a point. Georgina very clearly states this at the beginning and references the article that she is quoting to prove the point."Something we often get criticised for is that you take the time to give us feedback on beta products but then never really see any output from the effort you made. Which is why this blog post is so important it outlines the amount of feedback given and what is actually being done as a result." whether you recognize it or not, we are in fact on the same team. Just, our jobs are different, that's all.I can agree with that, the main difference between usis that you seem to have a propensity for dwelling on the negative. When you cannot find a negative, you seem to think it's OK to simplyinvent one?Regards,Thank You for testing Windows 7 Beta Ronnie Vernon MVP

DarienHawk67 said: Picsoe said: I read on MSFN that the Windows RC version for the public is scheduled for the last week of May 2009.That means almost half a year between the initial beta-7000 and the RC.I cannot wait that long, I should have been able to evaluate in between builds (7022 or 7048 or 7057 or 7061)- I am going back toWindows XPand I will stay there because I know what it is capable of.Sorry for Windows 7, but 5 months between the initial beta and the first RC without any intermediate available test-builds is not serious. I have to be able to test things and make up my mind for the near future of my computer activities.That is why I will go back to XP, that is at least settled now.I will wait until Windows 8 before to change again.Beta build 7000looked promising to me, but there has been too many builds afterwards of which I do not have any insight.The final Windows 7 is too foggy for me today. So, because Microsoft granted the privilege to use, test out, and provide input into a new, advanced operating system, you are upset because you cant wait for a candidate build that is close toif notactual release code. Did I get that right? Five months is too long to wait! Wait for what? A FREE release candidate that will give you an upper hand on usage and administration of the next OS that will populate most users desktops? A FREE release candidate that will allow you unfettered usage for its pre-programmed life span? Have you seen any of the other builds? Build 7022 had a few explorer issues that were not present in build 7000. Build 7057 is not ready for primetime as a left-over text box appears after you boot the system. It is not only in Microsofts best interest to ensure that the release candidate is a clean, polished build, it is also in the beta testers best interest. To do otherwise would irresponsible of Microsoft. If you think you should be entitled to any other interim builds, then sign up for a TechNet or MSDN subscription. If you are in IT, have your company do it for you. I agree. Go back to XP. You are not ready to test Windows 7 (in its later iterations), nor is it ready for you. Respectfully offered, you are way out of line sir.Picsoedid not deserve a response such as your's which smells of something I do not wish to comment about.Ifor myself do not work for an IT company or can afford a TechNet or MSDN subscription, which if I could I would have purchased one myself.I currently am dual-booting Vista and Win7 and look forward to RTM so I can finallygo 64 bit.I hope your reply made you feel better and I do somewhat agree with Picsoe's view of the situation.Good day to you sir.

Ronnie Vernon said:I'm not defending anyone.... I will be the first to criticize anyone, even Microsoft, if I find a fault. Any reasonably unbiased, even casual inspection of those articles would lead to the criticismI voiced. Those articles are pure distorted marketing double-speak. The article Your Opinion Countscites statistics in thefashion of apolitician, complete with words that do notmatch the title.The article Feedback and Engineering Windows 7 is a totally predictable run-on excusethat rationalizes whytheir unstated goals supercede the very Feedback they supposedly are soliciting.As you have done several times now Ronnie, seeing what I say is true, you next reference yet another article to refute my criticisms of the previous. That is what you did above. Twice. With huge billboard sized posts. Now you say the undisclosed goals are somewhere else? Huh. We know where they are andwhat they are.I want to see these engineeringgoals in black and white. I want to see the statistics of progress. I want to see the accumulated testers' wishlist. Just the straight facts. Not the misleading contrived stuff that is beingpresented instead.Ronnie, I am a great Microsoft Software enthusiast. Unwavering for over 25 years. But I hate this corporate BS. There is a difference between total commitment and blind faith. The latteris worship.

I've come to the conclusion not very many of you are in IT as you all have too much time to aimlessly banter and go off topic about a product which we (the general public) are all trying to support and make work for us all as a community - as we don't want to see it end up like Vista did. :-)

dutchie027 said: I've come to the conclusion not very many of you are in IT as you all have too much time to aimlessly banter and go off topic about a product which we (the general public) are all trying to support and make work for us all as a community - as we don't want to see it end up like Vista did. :-)Mainly, I'm with you. I want to see Win7 genuinely supercede Vista. :))But I disagree in one small aspect. I do not believe IT represents the general public, which consists of billions of simple single-user systems. That distinction is in fact much to my dismay when I read the posts in this forum.I also disagree that Vista ended up failing. It just took two years too long to clean it up.

egads said:Any reasonably unbiased, even casual inspection of those articles would lead to the conclusion I stated. Those articles are pure distorted marketing double-speak. The article Your Opinion Countscites statistics in thefashion of apolitician, complete with words that do notmatch the title.The article Feedback and Engineering Windows 7 is a totally predictable run-on excusethat rationalizes whytheir unstated goals supercede the very Feedback they supposedly are soliciting.As you have done several times now Ronnie, seeing what I say is true, you next reference yet another article to refute my criticisms of the previous. That is what you did above. Twice. With huge billboard sized posts. Now you say the undisclosed goals are somewhere else? Huh. We know where they are andwhat they are.I want to see these engineeringgoals in black and white. I want to see the statistics of progress. I want to see the accumulated testers' wishlist. Just the straight facts. Not the misleading contrived stuff that is beingpresented instead.HiYou only come to that conclusion because you have already made your mind up long before you even read the article.The goals are there for anyone to read, if they take the time to read those articles with an unbiased mind.What good would it do, even if you did see those feedback statistics? They would necessarily have to come from Microsoft and if they did not fit into your already pre-conceivedagenda it would be a waste of time for you to even read them?. Wouldn't it?If you can only think like a hammer, everything in the world will look like a nail.Regards,Thank You for testing Windows 7 Beta Ronnie Vernon MVP

So much bickering, for shame! After a long time break I finally renewed my MSDN membership and was actually going to ask here, per the MSDN Concierge's advice, about if there was a specific email addy to write to to request to be added to the Win7 beta program. Since I beta for several Game companies as well as driver beta test for 2 graphic card companies I thought seeking newer releases might be of valueSounds like, at least for now, there is no need to write MS and a RC will be along in a while to MSDN/Technet members so I'll just be paitent. I'm already using the beta version MS made available to everyone and just need to change my key to the one MSDN issued me.I must admit I'm suprised & a bit embarrasedat all the vitriol I've seem in the few threads I've read so far here. To my way of thinking there is no reason for it and we should all treat each other with a modicrum of respect.Sorry if my opinion seems worthless to others but its just how I feel and I felt it needed to be said.Jess

Don't you see what you're doingin your post Ronnie? You are distracting attention away from the very specific statements of my post. In fact, that is the very strategy I object to withthose Microsoft articles.I would be delighted to get a direct response from you, instead.

dutchie027 said: I've come to the conclusion not very many of you are in IT as you all have too much time to aimlessly banter and go off topic about a product which we (the general public) are all trying to support and make work for us all as a community - as we don't want to see it end up like Vista did. :-)Hmmm Maybe Microsoft SHOULD put out another beta... If for NO other good reason than to give these guys something to actually DO besides throwing the you know what around..

egads said: Don't you see what you're doingin your post Ronnie? You are distracting attention away from the very specific statements of my post. In fact, that is the very strategy I object to withthose Microsoft articles.I would be delighted to get a direct response from you, instead.EgadsSorry, I have directed you to the latest, most completeinformation, written by the people who run the beta program.How youchoose to digest and understandthat information is up to you.Regards,Thank You for testing Windows 7 Beta Ronnie Vernon MVP

Don't you see what you're doingin your post Ronnie? You are distracting attention away from the very specific statements of my post. In fact, that is the very strategy I object to withthose Microsoft articles.I would be delighted to get a direct response from you, instead.

Right guys.... I think it's time to call a time out here.We are all here for the same reason and that is that we are running a pre-release version of an upcoming OS from MS.The forums are here for us to gain knowledge or pass knowledge on and most of all to try to help each other out. Our opinions of windows 7 will vary from the outright haters to those that will orgasm at the mere thought of the OS plus every different shade in between. Opinions matter because it makes us think but when those differences of opinion turn into personal attacks on other forum users then a line has definitely been crossed and the forums cease to be of any use.I worked with vista from the early beta days and used the forums constantly but the vista forum is now an absolute disgrace because it's all about character assassinations rather than a technical forum.PLEASE do not let this forum go that way. Let's all agree to disagree here. After all if we all thought exactly the same this world be extremely dull.Rider5512

egads said: Don't you see what you're doingin your post Ronnie? You are distracting attention away from the very specific statements of my post. In fact, that is the very strategy I object to withthose Microsoft articles.I would be delighted to get a direct response from you, instead.Hi mate,calm down a bit. Ronnie gave you an answer. He reads and comments a lot. Whether you like (or not) his links to articles is not to be taken into account. It is a tad harsh to ask him to rewrite existing articles just to flatter your ego. Mind, I may be mistaken. I do not always like his comments (especially when he doesn't like or misunderstands my questions), but grant him to be helpful when he can.RegardsRem

Zeus, I like you and your posts. But I think this time you should start at the beginning of this thread and read it.Ronnie posts these links to quash anything that seems to be a MS criticism. I have indeed taken the effort to study them. They are typical spin, nothing but. When I point that out, Ronnie just points at another that is of the same substance. I didn't want to engage any further, because he will just point at yet another. But let's look at his latest link Beginning of the conversation. It contains the very elevating statement:We strongly believe that success for Windows 7 includes an open and honest, and two-way, discussion about how we balance all of these interests and deliver software on the scale of Windows. We promise and will deliver such a dialog with this blog.I thought two-way meant something more substantial than merely a Comment-Box in the bottom of the blog page.Silly me. See?Ronnie didn't write that. But he posted it. He did so to deny criticism about how MS is using our Data and Feedback. Read the thread.

No mate, just to make sure I wasn't mistaken I reread the entire thread. Technically spoken this thread has lost all interest. It's more like a shoot-em-up. You are pissed, Darien is pissed (not for the same reasons though), Ronnie is pissed, and run3km must be dead by now.I cannot agree with you on this one egads. You really pushed Ronnie far (in this thread). You cannot expect the answers, in this stage, to be as accurate as they should have been if everybody participating here would have had a cool beer in the lounge.Having said that, what if we try to get this thread back on track."success for Windows 7 includes an open and honest, and two-way, discussion about how we balance all of these interests and deliver software on the scale of Windows"Let's be honest, the amount of people participating in forums / blogs is inferior to the amount of people using / are going to use software. The excerpt above is as honest as an electoral promise.Anyway, people saying "no" make more noise than people saying yes.What I mean here is: "you" claim to be numerous asking for a classic startmenu. If I were you I wouldn't take this up for a well advertised vote. Democracy being what it is, you may not obtain the result expected.I'm pretty sure we'll find each other again in another more constructive thread.RegardsRem

Zeus76 said:success for Windows 7 includes an open and honest, and two-way, discussionThat's all I'm saying, Zeus.Thanks. Now I can get off my soapbox.And thank you, too, Ronnie for letting me stand on it awhile.;)

egads said: Thanks. Now I can get off my soapbox. And I can have my beer. LOL

Hi PicsoeThank you for your feedback.Unfortunately, I had to delete your post for being abusive and violating theCommunity Code of Conduct.Thank you for understanding.Thank You for testing Windows 7 Beta Ronnie Vernon MVP

HiTokugawa IeyasuThanks for the feedback.Unfortunately, I had to remove your post for being abusive and violating theCommunity Code of Conduct.Thank you for understanding.Thank You for testing Windows 7 Beta Ronnie Vernon MVP

Hi Ronnie,As a moderator, would it not be best to simply lock and close this thread rather than simply letting it lingre on? As posted by Rider5512, I to agree it's time to call it and based on your Community Code of Conduct link viloations you keep posting and the way different cultures are going to read this thread some of the messages (potentially yours included) infringe on the "respect" bit of the code you often refer back to.Cheers,Justin

Hi Justin Most of this thread is just a discussion/debate about how the beta program should be operated. Deleting the entire thread would be doing a disservice, and show a lack of respect,to all of the other members who took the timeto posthere. It's OKto post thoughts and feelings and to even get heated, as long as all of the members maintain a mutualrespect for each other.When amember resorts to name calling, defamation, or other personally abusive comments, then that post will be selectively removed.Thanks for understanding.Thank You for testing Windows 7 Beta Ronnie Vernon MVP

Ronnie,What I suggested was to close and lock the thread - NOTdelete it. I think this is what kicked everything off in the first place, lack of truly reading the post and replying post hastely.Ho hum...

dutchie027 said: I've come to the conclusion not very many of you are in IT as you all have too much time to aimlessly banter and go off topic about a product which we (the general public) are all trying to support and make work for us all as a community - as we don't want to see it end up like Vista did. :-)Amen to that! Let Microsoft takes it time before the rc comes out. Better to get it right then wind up with another Vista.robin

And it seems that egads = or is synonymous with rabble rousing. Obviously you have too much time on your hands if you took the time to see that over time I have created 2 different logins on different computers. You really do seem to be a small, petty individual. Unfortunently, any good thought you may have wil probably become somewhat mute in the face of your rancourLonewolf/daveec

What I have to contribute is beyond your comprehension for you are unable to comprehend little (it appears) which is outside of your own small realm of belief and thought.You and several others are why I contribute little to this site and instead use other available channelsto communicate my thoughts on Win 7"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds "-Ralph Waldo Emerson,Self-Reliance

lonewolf said: And it seems that egads = or is synonymous with rabble rousing. Obviously you have too much time on your hands if you took the time to see that over time I have created 2 different logins on different computers. You really do seem to be a small, petty individual. Unfortunently, any good thought you may have wil probably become somewhat mute in the face of your rancourLonewolf/daveecWhat I have to contribute is beyond your comprehension for you are unable to comprehend little (it appears) which is outside of your own small realm of belief and thought.You and several others are why I contribute little to this site and instead use other available channelsto communicate my thoughts on Win 7 lonewolf - Posted on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:10:49 AM Ms Tregre:What is your problem? Do you truly not understand Beta? Nor Evaluation? There is no cause to get so nasty and testy because YOU chose to install something and then did not like it. Grow up! (I doubt that you will see this post).Dave Crowder Fair enough, lonewolf=DaveEC=Dave CrowderI suppose I could have been a bit more tactful, like you.Your posts are easily connected by this quality.But you know, this thread was dead until you bumped it. Why resurrect my remarks, unless you want them heard !?

Are you guys going to stop?Lonewolf: your last two post were useless unless you wanted to hurt somebody.Egads: you can be a PITA, but please don't pick up what he lonewolf said. This kind of "conversation" is not going to help make windows 7 a better product.And isn't that what we're here for?regardsRem

it would be ok from MS to provide to us some information....thn we will not be desinformed from torrent and other sites about new versions,brunch RC etc....its fair to us all to all Ms customers,,,Iv purchased Xp and Vista Home pRemium amns what benefit ive get....nothing....and plus over 150 feedbacks from my 7 beta testing period...please MS .keep contact with people or we must wait windows 8....

lion983 said: please MS .keep contact with people or we must wait windows 8....I fully agree with you lion983 !I gave up on testing Windows 7 and giving feedback because I do not have the faintest idea about what happened with all our input.There has been so many builds between 7000 and now, and we are not allowed to test what MS has been doing so far.I went back to my good old XP-Home-Premium and I will stay there until ... yes why not Windows 8.Maybe that one will be a real beta testing program.Windows 7 ? I forgot all about it, it has been too long to hear something new about it.

just found this morning pretty nice page "template"(image was redlined by me)"back to the future"http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/4162/flashback.jpgkeep up good job Mikerowsoft!!!

Release candidate The term release candidate (RC) refers to a version with potential to be a final product.(c) Wikipedia.http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/2199/traces.jpg

http://bink.nu/news/technet-slips-windows-7-rc-info.aspxhttp://www.neowin.net/news/main/09/03/26/microsoft-hints-at-windows-7-release-candidate-for-mayhttp://www.google.ee/search?hl=ru&q=Existing+TechNet+Plus+subscribers%2C+download+the+Windows+7+RC+software+here&btnG=%CF%EE%E8%F1%EA&lr=

perfect catch!thank you!

Hi FolksI am going to lock this thread and give everyone a chance to relax and cool off.This should give everybody time to read the Community Code of Conduct.Especially the following section.Be NiceMicrosoft does not tolerate disruptive activity online, such as persistent off-topic comments and postings or statements that incite others to violate this Code of Conduct or participate in illegal activities. Our participants want to chat and post on our collaborative services in a positive environment.Microsoft reserves the right to ban a user at any time for not being nice.Thanks for understanding. Ronnie Vernon MVPForum Moderator