NO !

There has been some very good work. Thank you Microsoft staff for your efforts, but people are still going to hate Windows 8.1 GUI.

Sadly the "Start tip", does not answer peoples issues with;

1) The majority of Windows Users want a Start button that leads to a Start menu as in Windows 7. There are many reasons why a Start menu has better usability over the full-screen start screen.

[Honestly I doubt we will ever see the return of the Start menu, not unless no one ever buys another Windows computer which is not going to happen, however I must point this issue out, as it is the number of major source of people's frustrations]

2) As a user just said to me, "Great a Start button", clicked on the Start tip, and when to the Full Screen start menu, and said, "Hey, this is not a menu, and where did the start button go, how do I go back to the desktop?" Yes, I know the answer it is to find the "Desktop" tile that is hidden among the many other flashy tiles on the screen, but to the user it is not an intuitive way to work.

3) Our users are experiencing difficulty with accessing the Full Screen Start Screen and the Charms bar when using a mouse (e.g. when the Tablet is docked at a desktop). a) The Start tip helps get to the Start Screen from the Desktop, but does not help in any other place (e.g. in Metro apps, or in the Start Screen itself), b) I would like to suggest, can there be a "Charms tip" ?  There could be a Charms tip to help people quickly and easily locate the hidden Charms menu.  This two tips should be on all screens when a mouse is connected. 

Please do something to make it easier for a mouse or trackpad to access the Start screen or the Charms menu.

I think the changes are great...things are moving in the right direction. I think old timers are capable of learning the new UI and if the new start button to start screen isn't enough they can use all apps which is a giant mess like most start menus.

Now that 8.1 is out for all, do you like the update?

I do not see any reason to change my opinion about Win8 on the basis of Win8.1.  There are some refinements of the Metro interface and that is about all.  The "return" of the Start Button actually added insult to injury by taking the user to the Start Screen.  The same jarring experience.  I guess that Microsoft decided that we were not "jarred" enough.  Maybe they should move to electroshocks!!!  The general yawn associated with its release of Win8.1 preview and with Build speaks to that.  The user community is unimpressed.  Manufacturers are hedging their bets, selling machines that double boot to Android. 

I still find it outrageously funny looking at Microsoft executives being "excited" that one can snap three Metro windows together.  Wowwww!! Wasn't Bill Gates doing the same demonstration with Win1 back in 1984????  Another huge innovation: a bigger live tile and a wallpaper in the Metro screen!!!  Wallpaper?  Wasn't this hot news in 1995????

I think that it all deserves a hearty laughter.  It is totally ridiculous.  In the meantime, HP is releasing an Android desktop.  Maybe Microsoft would wake up...or maybe not. 

I want to turn off the Start button. It's wasting valuable taskbar space. :(

I agree with U, I like how well the blue desktop works with old style desktop. I like the improvements to blue. I enjoy having 3 views in blue desktop and still able to use classic top as a lapping windows in a view of my choice. I like the option to customize displays in blue.

That about says it all for Win8.1!!!

That's just the most visible change.  Look at what they have done to Search and Multi-monitor and multi-MUF app support?  They have catered to the whiners and just made things worse IMO.

To add to my annoyance the only reason I would want a Start button would be to help my pen avoid having to open the OSK to do Win-X but the only way that I have been able to do that is by pinning the TouchMagnifer.exe to my Taskbar.  Opening that and shoving it over and under the bottom left corner.  Then using that to bring out the App Switcher at which point my pen's right-click finally works.  Doesn't look like an improvement on: tap OSK; tap Win; tap X  to me.  Before it was non-functional for my pen too but hidden.  Now it just stays there looking ugly and confusingly similar to my Run... button.   In fact, they moved my Run... button away from it, probably to try to help avoid that confusion.   ; ]

That about says it all for Win8.1!!!

That's just the most visible change.  Look at what they have done to Search and Multi-monitor and multi-MUF app support?  They have catered to the whiners and just made things worse IMO.

To add to my annoyance the only reason I would want a Start button would be to help my pen avoid having to open the OSK to do Win-X but the only way that I have been able to do that is by pinning the TouchMagnifer.exe to my Taskbar.  Opening that and shoving it over and under the bottom left corner.  Then using that to bring out the App Switcher at which point my pen's right-click finally works.  Doesn't look like an improvement on: tap OSK; tap Win; tap X  to me.  Before it was non-functional for my pen too but hidden.  Now it just stays there looking ugly and confusingly similar to my Run... button.   In fact, they moved my Run... button away from it, probably to try to help avoid that confusion.   ; ]

Absolutely.

First, for those complaining about the Start button taking you to the regular metro Start screen, if you look at the bottom left hand of your screen you'll see a down arrow - this is your "All Programs"  Windows 7 and lower type screen that you're wanting.  Personally, the Windows Key + Search without having to move my mouse is what I prefer...because - hotkeys are more efficient than moving and a mouse to begin with, and as technology professionals - shame on you for still clicking anything that supports hotkeys.  For those that do click, Right-Clicking on the Start Button is a pretty rewarding experience giving you a good amount of access to the most common system tools you'd go to.

I love the multi-monitor/multi-application functions that have been added in, especially in outlook where you can view in Internet Explorer and view multiple emails at once.  It's really, really amazing. 

Myself and my colleague are still playing around with all the new features, personally though I'm more interested in the 5,000+ APIs that have been added though supposedly.

Absolutely.

First, for those complaining about the Start button taking you to the regular metro Start screen, if you look at the bottom left hand of your screen you'll see a down arrow - this is your "All Programs"  Windows 7 and lower type screen that you're wanting.

We know, we know...do not waste your spit.  Have you seen the "All Apps" screen in a 30-inch monitor?  Why should I be dropped out from whatever I am doing just because I want to run another application?  Is this sane in any planet or in any universe?  This is an OS for baboons!!

Hey, but it can snap three windows together which is even less than what Win 1.0 was able to do back in 1984.  Otherwise, we are marching forward into the future ...backwards.

Win8.x would be crashed by OSX "Mavericks" from the top and desktop implementations of Android from the bottom.  HP, Samsung, Intel are executing on this already.  How long would Dell manage to hang on when its profits are down by 76% is really unknown.  Microsoft is fast approaching irrelevance in the desktop/laptop space.  Possibly, the future of the company would be in providing "services" and programs for popular OSes.  When would it release Office for Android????  (it would taps for Win8 then).

shame on you for still clicking anything that supports hotkeys.

Tried pressing Win- while focus is on your non-Touch monitor?  I liked using my pen or my finger instead of having to swing my mouse over.   Now I get to either interrupt my main screen to see a search where I don't want it or force focus onto the monitor where I do want it.  The way it was working was better.  I may get used to tapping on the Start button when it is showing on my Tablet (e.g. when both screens are showing Desktops) but when my Tablet is showing a MUF something the button won't be there!   Swipe doesn't work well on my Tablet and using the pen to dig the Charms bar out of a right corner is also problematic.  So probably I now need to get used to the idea of swinging my mouse and losing a lot of the benefit that my Tablet's Touch screen used to provide.

We know, we know...do not waste your spit.  Have you seen the "All Apps" screen in a 30-inch monitor?  Why should I be dropped out from whatever I am doing just because I want to run another application?  Is this sane in any planet or in any universe?  This is an OS for baboons!!

Hey, but it can snap three windows together which is even less than what Win 1.0 was able to do back in 1984.  Otherwise, we are marching forward into the future ...backwards.

Win8.x would be crashed by OSX "Mavericks" from the top and desktop implementations of Android from the bottom.  HP, Samsung, Intel are executing on this already.  How long would Dell manage to hang on when its profits are down by 76% is really unknown.  Microsoft is fast approaching irrelevance in the desktop/laptop space.  Possibly, the future of the company would be in providing "services" and programs for popular OSes.  When would it release Office for Android????  (it would taps for Win8 then).

I suppose I don't understand your frustration - as you don't have to be dropped out of whatever application you're doing to load another application. You can also easily sort through your metro applications by holding down the Windows Key + Tab.

Desktop mode is still there, and you don't even have to use Metro screen AT ALL if you would learn how to configure Windows 8.1.  You can have Windows 8.1 boot directly to Desktop Mode.  You can also have it to where the Windows Key directly pulls up the All Apps menu instead of the Metro screen, if you prefer a more Windows 7 and below type feel to your OS.

It sounds to me that you're wanting an OS that does treat you like a baboon, instead of learning to configure your OS to fit your needs.

EDIT: After looking back at your previous MSDN posts though, it's quite apparent that the complaints you make is just your lack of knowledge of configuring an OS to meet your needs.  It's quite possible that I look at this differently, coming from a UNIX background - spending a few days to configure my OS to meet MY needs, instead of me meeting the OS' needs is the first thing I do when installing an OS.  Windows 8 and 8.1 has the same functionality as Windows 7 with the addition of Metro, and you can configure metro pretty much out of the equation - which is why it baffles me that it's such a problem.

I personally like the benefits that Metro gives me to where I can continue to do work on my desktop in desktop mode while keeping things like my music/outlook/etc hidden in the background in metro - saving quite a bit of real estate on the task bar.

I also very much prefer the All Apps window, now I can color code my All Programs and sort them out in needs of availability, as well as other categories. 

P.S. - Android would need to get through it's terrible memory management and leaks prior to even aiming for the desktop world.  After owning 2 android phones, I would never use another Android product to save my life.  Having to restore your phone once a day due to a sluggish OS in which I hardly ever downloaded 3rd party apps to begin with - well, that's pretty unacceptable.

I installed it in VM.  Here's what happened.

First of all, congrats to whoever it was that fixed the SHA1's on the ISO download page.  It was wrong when I downloaded it.  (I googled it when it didn't match, it was the obsolete Consumer Preview SHA1, nice going guys).  Anyway...

During installation, it told me I needed do some kind of verification of my email account.  I don't know what that's all about.  But the email name it provided (to verify) was not the email address I provided for my mandatory account.  How could it get that wrong, I don't understand.  And it wouldn't let me correct it.  Anyway.  Whatever that was all about, I chose to skip it.

While it was installing, I walked away for awhile.  When I came back, it was blackscreened.  Then bluescreened (frowny face).  Upon reboot it picked back up where it left off without a hint that happened.

Upon completion, I was especially curious about that "verification" thing I had to skip, and looked in the metro control panel for it.  Under the accounts settings, there was something there telling me I needed to do something more with my online MS Account.  I clicked the link it provided, and it twirled-open the metro IE briefly, which then immediately closed itself.  I tried it a few times, it kept failing to stay open.  Then I rebooted and tried again.  Every time the same thing happened.

So, whatever that "verification" and additional account config was all about, I'll just never know.

While I was there in Settings, I looked for that new setting to boot directly to Desktop.  It was probably right there staring at me, but I didn't see it.  According to the fellow's EDIT who posted before me, I'm just an experienced noob.  That explains it.  Whatever.

The Mail App logged me into my account correctly, it seems.  Yes, that's my correct name and account there.  But it didn't find the 14 unread emails that are there.  It said my inbox is empty.

Then I tested IE11 to see if it would load this extra-long forum page any faster than IE10.  Nope.  4 long minutes to load, that's what it took.  (No wonder ColaKid dodged it).

Then I tried to post a comment on MS Answers using this new IE11.  Their editor produced the wrong font.  The link I tried to embed wouldn't stick.  It kept disappearing.  Who would expect otherwise.

At that point, I just shut it down.

While I was there in Settings, I looked for that new setting to boot directly to Desktop.  It was probably right there staring at me, but I didn't see it.  According to the fellow's EDIT who posted before me, I'm just an experienced noob.  That explains it.  Whatever.

Hey curiously idle,

You can do this by right-clicking on your task bar at the bottom of the screen while in Desktop Mode and going to Properties, then to Navigation, then to "Go to the desktop instead of Start when I sign in".

Additionally, you can just search "Taskbar and Navigation" in your search window and find the same options.

So, whatever that "verification" and additional account config was all about, I'll just never know.

Me too.  However, one difference I now realize is that that account, my machine owner, now requires password to logon each time.  Previously I had it set up to logon automatically (somehow, I don't exactly remember how.)  Still no sign about what I am supposed to do to verify the account and I have accessed my Mailbox since then, including checking how much has been archived.

I almost wish I had accepted the telephone call.  I guess that would be computer generated voice?  What would that be like?  Would it stick around while I typed?  Allow me to ask for a correction if I made a mistake typing?  The mind boggles.  ; )

I'll try to make it easier for you to understand. (at least in ,y perspective and based on my experiences) 

The demand from the users is that they want to be able to see the start menu (no startscreen) at the same time and on the same screen as they have their Lync Video meeting and their spreadsheat and so on. You cant do that with 8.X without third party and since there is no insurance that third party apps will work in the future there is a risk that my customers doesn't want.

Talking from a base of about a 100 case studies on win8 there has been Zero cases where the customer has selected Win8 as their new platform. 

The reason is always the same. It's to expensive to retrain the users for Modern UI and they are not willing to risk their environment with a third party start menu.

Most of the XP customers decides on W7 instead planing to run it to 2020. Some actually are staying on XP saying that they will run XP unsupported for now and the W7 customers stays on W7. 

Besides from that I see 8.1 as an improvement of 8.0 but since it doesn't fix the showstopper it really doesn't matter

This is not an operating system for use in a business setting-no matter what Microsoft wants us to believe. With employee turn-over and constant retraining it wastes our time. We use 24 & 27 inch monitors and I don't want to ever use a touchscreen on my desk. To business people Windows 8.1 is a slap in the face.  None of the major issues for business use have been addressed. Nothing has been done to shorten the learning curve or to bring back any level of intuitiveness. All of my employees have IPads for field work and have given up laptops for obvious portability reasons. We installed Windows 8 and within 2 weeks we removed it and went back to 7. We will stay there until we have no other choice.

Well, tcl945, you have to preconfigure the systems for your employees.

8.1 allows one to boot(Start) to the desktop after log-on. The create shortcuts on the desktop for the apps they need to use. I passed on 8 as well as others, because of the Metro screen. No help for keyboard and mouse users. MS heard that and tossed us a fix.

Build a test machine with the 8.1 ISO, clean install. You'll see that you can create system configured for their use and then be able to deploy that image to all of your machines. (or manually do them all)

Out of 10 IT professionals in my division, only four are running Windows 8.  Two happily, including me, the other two recluctanly.  Me and another are the only ones running 8.1--the other have no plans what so ever.

When present with a choice, ALL users have chosen to get the Windows 7 image.  Most don't even want to try it once they see me and the other three having to endure the dreaded Start Screen.

Granted, StarDock's Start8 is almost a must have--and even better so since it has GPO templates;  However, in our environment, it not on the authorized software list.  Same for Classic Start--which is what I use on my personal systems.

Having the Start Screen share the same background as the desktop makes the switch less jarring, but it does nothing when you want to see your other applications while you search.  8.1 has made some good headway, but I still believe it will be a big flop.  Hopefully MSFT will actually read these comments and make the required changes and tweaks prior to RTM.  Otherwise, we may have to wait for Windows 8.2.

I suppose I don't understand your frustration - as you don't have to be dropped out of whatever application you're doing to load another application. You can also easily sort through your metro applications by holding down the Windows Key + Tab.

Desktop mode is still there, and you don't even have to use Metro screen AT ALL if you would learn how to configure Windows 8.1.  You can have Windows 8.1 boot directly to Desktop Mode.  You can also have it to where the Windows Key directly pulls up the All Apps menu instead of the Metro screen, if you prefer a more Windows 7 and below type feel to your OS.

It sounds to me that you're wanting an OS that does treat you like a baboon, instead of learning to configure your OS to fit your needs.

EDIT: After looking back at your previous MSDN posts though, it's quite apparent that the complaints you make is just your lack of knowledge of configuring an OS to meet your needs.  It's quite possible that I look at this differently, coming from a UNIX background - spending a few days to configure my OS to meet MY needs, instead of me meeting the OS' needs is the first thing I do when installing an OS.  Windows 8 and 8.1 has the same functionality as Windows 7 with the addition of Metro, and you can configure metro pretty much out of the equation - which is why it baffles me that it's such a problem.

I personally like the benefits that Metro gives me to where I can continue to do work on my desktop in desktop mode while keeping things like my music/outlook/etc hidden in the background in metro - saving quite a bit of real estate on the task bar.

I also very much prefer the All Apps window, now I can color code my All Programs and sort them out in needs of availability, as well as other categories. 

P.S. - Android would need to get through it's terrible memory management and leaks prior to even aiming for the desktop world.  After owning 2 android phones, I would never use another Android product to save my life.  Having to restore your phone once a day due to a sluggish OS in which I hardly ever downloaded 3rd party apps to begin with - well, that's pretty unacceptable.

If you want to exchange insults, I would be glad to oblige.  If you have not managed to configure Androids as to suit your preferences, after owning two phones, what is your credibility in Win8?  None. 

Wow...you can color code your programs!!!!  Wow, wow...I am floored.  "All apps" screen still looks ugly and totally unnecessary on large screens.  Totally useless.  Ridiculous even...choose your characterization.  Why would I even want a system which I have to spend a few days configuring (with 3rd party tools) in order to avoid Metro while I can stay in Win7 that does have full Aero and decent font display???  What is the value proposition for moving to Win8.1 apart from lost days of work, decreased productivity and a silly mobile OS that nobody really wants to use?

Just face it, there is no value proposition here whatsoever.  If you like playing with tiles, well, I can let you have my Windows 1.0 copy that I have somewhere in the basement.  It is more advanced than WinRT/Metro.  You would have fun with it, I am sure.

If Microsoft wants to force-feed me Metro, it has another surprise coming (and so far, the surprises have not been good)

Having the Start Screen share the same background as the desktop makes the switch less jarring, but it does nothing when you want to see your other applications while you search.  8.1 has made some good headway, but I still believe it will be a big flop.  Hopefully MSFT will actually read these comments and make the required changes and tweaks prior to RTM.  Otherwise, we may have to wait for Windows 8.2.

MS would never deviate unless disaster starts knocking at the door.  The reality is that the plans for Win8.1 were put in motion before Win8 was released, so I am not surprised that all one is seeing is "Metro" refinements which just did not make it to the last year's release.

Microsoft would not listen.  It has not listen before, it would not listen now.  It marches to its  own drumbeat, although it is clear now that its OEMs are slowing abandoning it.  Intel is working with some of these OEMs to start producing Android laptops at about the $300 price point, HP has released its first Android desktop (and it is releasing a laptop soon) and Samsung is releasing Android/Win8 hybrids.  Dell, holding out, has seen its profits plunge.  The high end would be consumed by Apple's OSX as Mavericks is a very solid update and the new laptops and MacPro are absolutely stunning.  If Apple decides to reduce its prices by 30%, it would simply devastate the Win OEM business, but it is unlikely to do so.  However, the OEMs live with this fear.

Microsoft needs to introduce a high end desktop OS, one that can run behemoths like the Mac Pro and huge monitors with 4K resolutions and multiprocessors with dozens of cores.  In that world, users would be excited to upgrade their machines and their processors and get the latest OS.  Both Microsoft and its OEM partners would prosper.  However, with Microsoft attempting in a monomaniac way to break through the mobile OS system (that has no need of Metro or anything like it), it would see its core business devastated in about a year or two.

You like screenshots, do you ColaKid?

OK.  Here's a few for you.

Here's the inviting experience I had while installing the 8.1 Preview.

I let it go to sleep when I walked away during installation.  I guess the power mgmt drivers weren't ready for that yet.  It recovered ok upon reboot.  But still, sheesh.

(click if you want to waste several minutes waiting for this thread to load)

Here's the great IE11 load-time improvement that marketing promised.  Not.

ColaKid, you've not just ducked this once.  Not just twice.  But three times including this present thread.

What in the world?

This same thing happened during install.  See the email address presented in the box?  It's wrong.  It's my user name concatenated together.  That is NOT my email account address.  Win 8.1 obviously knows my correct email address.  It's the other one shown there, shown in the gray area directly below my Windows user name.  What a goofed-up bug.

And there's no way to correct it there.  Great.

What is this? 

Every time I opened mspaint, this was its greeting (right before it aborted).

I got it straightened out.  Chalk it up to noob error.  Nevermind.

Help & Support is deprecated?

Doesn't that give me the warm and fuzzies.

Welcome to MS Windows 8.1 reimagined.

File Explorer 8.1 didn't fix the FTP bug introduced with Win8+IE10?

No problem.  I'll just stick with Vista, where it works perfectly.

What is with this IE11 spell-checker?

It just underscored/flagged 2.9 sentences.

Hmmph.

If you want to exchange insults, I would be glad to oblige.  If you have not managed to configure Androids as to suit your preferences, after owning two phones, what is your credibility in Win8?  None. 

Wow...you can color code your programs!!!!  Wow, wow...I am floored.  "All apps" screen still looks ugly and totally unnecessary on large screens.  Totally useless.  Ridiculous even...choose your characterization.  Why would I even want a system which I have to spend a few days configuring (with 3rd party tools) in order to avoid Metro while I can stay in Win7 that does have full Aero and decent font display???  What is the value proposition for moving to Win8.1 apart from lost days of work, decreased productivity and a silly mobile OS that nobody really wants to use?

Just face it, there is no value proposition here whatsoever.  If you like playing with tiles, well, I can let you have my Windows 1.0 copy that I have somewhere in the basement.  It is more advanced than WinRT/Metro.  You would have fun with it, I am sure.

If Microsoft wants to force-feed me Metro, it has another surprise coming (and so far, the surprises have not been good)

It's not about configuring Android, it's that Android's garbage collection is crap.  Android also likes to market their OS with phone carriers that put a ton of unneeded bloatware hardwired into the OS, in which you need to crack the phone just to remove.  Most of my co-workers are very much Android aficionados - all of our enterprise level phones are Androids, and they will still admit that garbage collection for run-away processes on Android are crap.  Supposedly, the newest Jelly Beans version of this addressed many of these concerns. 

Ugly, is an opinion, and again it takes a matter of minutes to change two options in a check box to get the same functionality of Windows 7 in Windows 8.  I apologize if you're having trouble with these options, especially as an "IT Professional".

The value is that it's a standard OS that can meet the needs of whatever device that you're using it on.  Also, Aero is craptastic for performance.  I'll be glad when more people start developing in WPF and the COM/Win32 Aero themes die - it won't be a sad day.  It eats up CPU performance due to it drawing the graphics based on the CPU and not by the GPU.  Which is why Windows 8 is much more performance efficient.

Microsoft isn't force-feeding you metro, it expects that if you're an IT professional you have the knowledge of clicking a check box.  If you're not, and you're using the OS for business purposes it suspects that there's an IT department not close by that can include such configuration in their images they put. 

Complaining over an OS, comparing it to Windows 7 when it has the SAME functionality as Windows 8 is quite silly, and makes you look very ignorant and uninformed.

Android also likes to market their OS with phone carriers that put a ton of unneeded bloatware hardwired into the OS, in which you need to crack the phone just to remove. 

When you're right, you're right.  It's truly an OEM Windows tradition.

Polluted with bloatware, and MS totally unsupportive in removing it.

..........

Regarding the rest, yes I agree.  When Aero came out with Vista, it was like a child who had taken to a paint set for the first time.  (What is the formal definition of Aero anyway?  I digress.  Sorry).  It got better with Win7.  But not much.  Win8 RP was really starting to look good.  Finally.   But then.

In any case, you can easily turn Aero off with Vista/7.  Right?

Again, I agree completely.  The only way to compose and compile ASM efficiently is with an ASCII editor under DOS.  Anything else is just playing.  Ditch Windows and all this kissy WYSIWYG eye-candy.  That's for amateurs.  Nauseating.

Metro especially.

........

btw.  Thanks for your instructions how to setup direct boot Desktop.  That setting isn't exactly where I would have intuitively expected to find it.  Under Settings.  Silly noob me.

It's not about configuring Android, it's that Android's garbage collection is crap.  Android also likes to market their OS with phone carriers that put a ton of unneeded bloatware hardwired into the OS, in which you need to crack the phone just to remove.  Most of my co-workers are very much Android aficionados - all of our enterprise level phones are Androids, and they will still admit that garbage collection for run-away processes on Android are crap.  Supposedly, the newest Jelly Beans version of this addressed many of these concerns. 

Ugly, is an opinion, and again it takes a matter of minutes to change two options in a check box to get the same functionality of Windows 7 in Windows 8.  I apologize if you're having trouble with these options, especially as an "IT Professional".

The value is that it's a standard OS that can meet the needs of whatever device that you're using it on.  Also, Aero is craptastic for performance.  I'll be glad when more people start developing in WPF and the COM/Win32 Aero themes die - it won't be a sad day.  It eats up CPU performance due to it drawing the graphics based on the CPU and not by the GPU.  Which is why Windows 8 is much more performance efficient.

Microsoft isn't force-feeding you metro, it expects that if you're an IT professional you have the knowledge of clicking a check box.  If you're not, and you're using the OS for business purposes it suspects that there's an IT department not close by that can include such configuration in their images they put. 

Complaining over an OS, comparing it to Windows 7 when it has the SAME functionality as Windows 8 is quite silly, and makes you look very ignorant and uninformed.

Seriously though, you should re-read all your comments.  You're starting to sound like a 40-year old man that just can't deal with change very well.  Perhaps moving to a Mac OS is more your thing though, that retirement plan will pay for the racket that they call their hardware market. Shiny white rock laptops are always awesome! 

I guess that your only replies to my comments is a series of insults.  Well, so be it.  It simply reflects the immaturity of the Metro fanboys.  No logical argument, no value proposition, no ROI calculation...just insults.  It is typical, I have to say.  I much more capable than you in dealing with change.  But I do not want to deal with change that does absolutely nothing for me.

Metro was not added to the desktop because Microsoft wants me to be nibble on my feet.  It was put there to create a fake market for a mobile OS and to attract developers to this mobile OS.  Supposedly, at some point, Microsoft realized that it would not be able to be successful in developing and selling a mobile OS.  Thus, why not transform all the desktops into tablets and deliver millions of users to developers?  It sounded like a great idea at that time.  Now, all that this solution needed was a few fanboys who would buy the the marketing message of "immersive experience (for full screen), digitally genuine (or Metro ugly), active tiles (for notifications that other mobile OSes use a single line!!!), and "common UI across platforms" (for "we will force-feed you Metro until your eyes bulge out). 

I would be more than happy to buy and configure a true powerful desktop/laptop OS that scales well, runs dozens of cores, works on powerful 4K displays and pushes the state of the art.  I would devote serious funds to upgrade equipment.  But I do not want to deal with a silly mobile OS bolted in a ridiculous manner ontop of the desktop OS.  Frankenstein monsters are just that: monsters.  But hey, they do have fans!!!

I guess that your only replies to my comments is a series of insults.  Well, so be it.  It simply reflects the immaturity of the Metro fanboys.  No logical argument, no value proposition, no ROI calculation...just insults.  It is typical, I have to say.  I much more capable than you in dealing with change.  But I do not want to deal with change that does absolutely nothing for me.

Metro was not added to the desktop because Microsoft wants me to be nibble on my feet.  It was put there to create a fake market for a mobile OS and to attract developers to this mobile OS.  Supposedly, at some point, Microsoft realized that it would not be able to be successful in developing and selling a mobile OS.  Thus, why not transform all the desktops into tablets and deliver millions of users to developers?  It sounded like a great idea at that time.  Now, all that this solution needed was a few fanboys who would buy the the marketing message of "immersive experience (for full screen), digitally genuine (or Metro ugly), active tiles (for notifications that other mobile OSes use a single line!!!), and "common UI across platforms" (for "we will force-feed you Metro until your eyes bulge out). 

I would be more than happy to buy and configure a true powerful desktop/laptop OS that scales well, runs dozens of cores, works on powerful 4K displays and pushes the state of the art.  I would devote serious funds to upgrade equipment.  But I do not want to deal with a silly mobile OS bolted in a ridiculous manner ontop of the desktop OS.  Frankenstein monsters are just that: monsters.  But hey, they do have fans!!!

Can you please name a functionality you had in Windows 7 that isn't in Windows 8? 

I've given quite a few technical examples.  The only thing that's really come out of any of your posts are that you don't like the metro theme. Complaining about the OS in the business area, and then suggesting OSX which is laughable because you'd lose the ability to use 99% of your LOB applications that you'd find in a business to begin with.  That's pretty much it.

You've mentioned quite a bit about 4k displays.  Currently, you'd be looking to spend about 700$+ on a graphics card that's capable of delivering it, as I'm pretty sure only Nvidia's top end is currently able to work with it.  It's also good to note that there's not much 4k content out there period.  There's a couple of promotional movies that you can buy from like National Geographic and such but there's no gaming platforms that offer that level of pixel depth yet.  The Best Buy here, which I live in a major city, JUST started carrying 4k's a month ago and only had one on display at the time.  What functionality are you looking for with your OS and 4k displays?  You can still hook it up to a computer via HDMI - you're going to lose quality - but if the hardware isn't there yet, then why expect the software to be.

I agree +10.

Good.  Then I'll stop counting now at duck #4.

Can you please name a functionality you had in Windows 7 that isn't in Windows 8? 

I posted a screenshot above of File Explorer 8 failing to open a FTP file.

It was directly beneath the deprecated Help & Support shot.

Did you miss it among the flood of all those other screenshots?

Can you please name a functionality you had in Windows 7 that isn't in Windows 8? 

I posted a screenshot above of File Explorer 8 failing to open a FTP file.

It was directly beneath the deprecated Help & Support shot.

Did you miss it among the flood of all those other screenshots?

Jbenisek, would you mind letting us know what size are your three screens, what video cards and CPU is your computer system, and what settings you are running with? I would be interested in how you like your configuration, please.

For a desktop setting I am trying these settings as Windows 8.1 provides;

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Personalization
DWORD NoLockScreen set to a value of 1  (disables the Lock Screen from being displayed)

Unselect "When I point to the upper-right corner, show the charms"
Select "When I click the upper-left corner, switch between my recent apps"
Select "Replace Command Prompt with Windows PowerShell..."
Select "Go to the desktop instead of Start when I sign in"
Select "Show my desktop background of Start"
Unselect "Always show Start on my main display when I press the Windows logo key"
Select "Show the Apps view automatically when I go to Start"
Unselect "Search everywhere instead of just my apps when I search from the Apps view"
Select "List desktop apps first in the Apps view when it's sorted by category"

If you have more than one monitor, they you might be able to tell exactly what the "Always show Start on my main display when I press the Windows logo key" option does in either of its two settings.

Can you please name a functionality you had in Windows 7 that isn't in Windows 8? 

You just need to be a Tablet PC user to be able to list several.  Somehow it looks as if no one from the Tablet PC team was used in the construction of W8.  During the beta there were many otherwise interested (if not eager) users saying that they would be sticking with W7 because of all the unwelcome changes in the Touch UX for Desktop support.

 
FYI

I have tried every which way to download this 8.1.....it is in my "STORE" Windows 8.1 Pro Preview with Media center. It downloads to about 72% then goes wonky and gives me an error code 0x80070002...I tried re setting everything and tried to reload again this morning....same thing. I give up. I don't know why Microsoft have to make things so difficult..........I guess I will have wait until the official 8.1 comes available......Unless of course, some one out there in computer land has an idea how to fix this....Thank you.

Buzzzz

...Another huge innovation... 

Acknowledging the implied quotes around "huge"... Is it just me or is there almost no actual substance to Windows 8.1?  What's changed? 

Seriously.

Microsoft worked for a whole year on this - thousands of engineers - and what's improved?  I few extremely minor changes is all I see.  I know that nothing substantive has changed because pretty much all my tweaks and 3rd party software just work.  Even the old Task Manager from the Windows 8 startup environment still works.  There are almost no incompatibilities, though I'm seeng a few glitches with Windows networking.

Did I miss something?  Not much of substance appears to have been changed.

About the most impressive things I've seen involved Microsoft changing the default settings of some very useful options Windows already had.  Bravo to them for changing a few things for the better, but...

Where's ReFS?

Why don't we have more control over desktop operations?

Why can't I get the OS to read my eMail to me?

Where's a workable replacement for Windows Backup?

Seriously - what new features does Windows 8.1 provide that we all needed, but didn't know we needed yet?

A whole freaking year of development, and no progress?

Meanwhile, in just the time Windows 8 has been out, 3rd party developers have done such things as re-implement Aero Glass, create the ability to run Metro/Modern applications in windows, implement any number of very good start menu replacements...

I haven't peeked under the covers of the Metro/Modern SDK stuff...  Surely there must be bold new capability there, that will allow developers to create great new software to make all our lives better.

An operating system is not just the window dressing.

But even acknowledging that Microsoft now only apparently has the talent to rearrange deck chairs, and presents pre-releases in order to manipulate users into liking what they would balk at if dumped on them all at once...  What changes are being presented to us with this release?  Slightly different ways to arrange the panels of the Metro/Modern UI?  More difficult app closure gestures to make users prefer not to do so?

I have tried every which way to download this 8.1.....it is in my "STORE" Windows 8.1 Pro Preview with Media center. It downloads to about 72% then goes wonky and gives me an error code 0x80070002...I tried re setting everything and tried to reload again this morning....same thing. I give up. I don't know why Microsoft have to make things so difficult..........I guess I will have wait until the official 8.1 comes available......Unless of course, some one out there in computer land has an idea how to fix this....Thank you.

Buzzzz

Microsoft needs to introduce a high end desktop OS, one that can run behemoths like the Mac Pro and huge monitors with 4K resolutions and multiprocessors with dozens of cores.  In that world, users would be excited to upgrade their machines and their processors and get the latest OS.  Both Microsoft and its OEM partners would prosper.  However, with Microsoft attempting in a monomaniac way to break through the mobile OS system (that has no need of Metro or anything like it), it would see its core business devastated in about a year or two.

MSFT already does produce a high-end desktop OS.  It is Windows!  If the standard Windows' client is not good enough for you, install Windows Server and enable the Desktop Experience.  Believe me, that is pretty impressive as a desktop system.

I have had the wonderful experience of having to work with some very, very high end hardware. I can say definitively that Windows 7 and Windows 8 will effortlessly chew trough almost any super-high end hardware you throw at it. A Dell Precision T7600 with 32GB of RAM and dual NVIDIA Quadro 4000K cards easily succumbs to Windows 7 Pro/Enterprise. Likewise with Windows 8 Pro/Enterprise.

Windows 8 (and now 8.1) is, in my opinion, a fast, stable, and wonderful operating system.  The only real hamper is the Start Screen on desktop, workstation, server designated hardware.

If I were an OEM, I would easily get with StarDock and ink an agreement that would allow me to ship Start8 with all new systems.  When I get to the point in my organization where I can make the "we will do this" decision, I will get a volume purchase of Start8 (provided at that time, MSFT has not made some other changes and/or reversals) and bundle it with our images and control its use via GPO.  As a matter of fact, if I could do this now, I would start the rollout of Windows 8 within my organization provided application compatibility testing is good.

I would agree, but make a few modifications to your statement; "Windows 8 (and now 8.1) is, in my opinion, a fast, stable, and wonderful operating system.  The only real hamper is the 1) Full Screen Start Screen, 2) accessing Charms  and 3) Full Screen Metro Apps on desktop, workstation, server designated hardware." Item 1 is where most users are finding the most frustration as they use this the most, they do have issues with item 2 but don't access this as frequently. Item 3 is an issue for Desktop users because these apps get displayed full screen, and to Tablet users they are an issue because the apps lack depth of functionality to be useful.  This is the summary of complaints that I receive from Windows 8 users.

There has been many amazing changes and improvement made to Windows 8, but currently the whole Metro experience is not one of them.

I use such hardware daily, Darien.  I'm typing this on my dual Xeon X5690 (12 core) Dell Precision workstation with 48GB and a 2 TB SSD array.  It's a joy to use Windows 7 on this.  I agree, there's not really a need for more high-endedness than Windows 7 provides.  I was just working on a 1 gigapixel astroimage in Photoshop a little while ago, while also testing things on Windows 8 and 8.1 virtual machines.

Thing is, Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 don't actually improve on the experience with such a system.  They're not faster, not prettier - and some serious features such as Windows Backup are deprecated.  What statement does that make?

It's pretty clear Microsoft, with Windows 8, is turning AWAY from high-end computing.

With all my tweaks and tricks I can make Windows 8 about 99% as powerful and usable as Windows 7 for high-end computing use.  It's just flabbergasting that it's not 150% or even 100%!

It's a damned shame, really.  They'd just gotten to where the system will just run and run forever, no matter what load you throw at it.

I liked Windows 8 and I like Windows 8.1 more. And I don't use a touchscreen PC. But still Windows 8 has got many improvements: pause and resume file transfer, Refresh and Reset, native support for mounting ISOs, VHDs. And others I haven't used: Hyper-V, Storage spaces.

And there are plenty of enhancements in Windows 8.1. Windows 8.1, which is a free update already packs more enhancements than Apple's paid OS X 10.9.

Windows 8.1 just fixed some annoyances. For example, the Search charm in Desktop mode. Rather than opening the Start Screen for search results, the results are displayed in the Search Charm itself, and it's possible to right-click the search results to access options, like Run as Administrator.

The shutdown options are now easier to access, Win+X > Shutdown > shutdown/Restart/Sleep. These two changes have fixed the annoyances for me.

Yes, I agree Windows 7 works good - but so does Windows 8.1. The enhancements added in Windows 8 and 8.1 on top of Windows 7 are good (I am not talking about Modern apps, the desktop enhancements). Since the Modern apps allow easy porting to Windows Phone and vice-versa, if there is any app/game I like on Windows Phone, I can also enjoy it on Windows 8 (this, ofcourse is mainly for non-professionals).

You know what I really like in 8.1! The ability to find devices that use sync. Like windows Mobile device center.

I figured I'd have to keep the old xp system for my Toshiba 740e pocket pc. I love that pocket. It is installed with word, excel and more. Windows 8 could not read that thing and windows 8.1 does.

I love the intergrated sync system windows 8 uses.

I specially. love the search in all desktop, taskbar,start,

I really like mirror projection on supported devices like my palm and pocket.

I like the new options to boot to desktop.

Like the option to drag task icons to any task bar on all displays

Yes ladies and gents. Windows 8 or 8.1 is the best OS ever!

Then I tested IE11 to see if it would load this extra-long forum page any faster than IE10.  Nope.  4 long minutes to load, that's what it took.  (No wonder ColaKid dodged it).

Yes ladies and gents.

Windows 8 or 8.1 is the best OS ever!

Then I tested IE11 to see if it would load this extra-long forum page any faster than IE10.  Nope.  4 long minutes to load, that's what it took.  (No wonder ColaKid dodged it).

Took 6 seconds without any hang.  And I don't have a lightning fast connection - it's 256kbps.  Windows 8.1 x64 on Intel Core i5 3rd Gen with 4 GB RAM. Consider re-installing IE 11.

> Consider re-installing IE 11

No.  You consider re-testing.  This time signed in.

Then consider re-tracting your statement, which is mis-taken.

That extra-long thread still takes 3-4 minutes to load with IE11 while signed in.

How could they possibly not know, after all these years?

That is the irony of the recent IE11 marketing hype.

"Improved Internet Explorer  Internet Explorer 11 improvements include faster page load times"

I use such hardware daily, Darien.  I'm typing this on my dual Xeon X5690 (12 core) Dell Precision workstation with 48GB and a 2 TB SSD array.  It's a joy to use Windows 7 on this.  I agree, there's not really a need for more high-endedness than Windows 7 provides.  I was just working on a 1 gigapixel astroimage in Photoshop a little while ago, while also testing things on Windows 8 and 8.1 virtual machines.

Thing is, Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 don't actually improve on the experience with such a system.  They're not faster, not prettier - and some serious features such as Windows Backup are deprecated.  What statement does that make?

It's pretty clear Microsoft, with Windows 8, is turning AWAY from high-end computing.

With all my tweaks and tricks I can make Windows 8 about 99% as powerful and usable as Windows 7 for high-end computing use.  It's just flabbergasting that it's not 150% or even 100%!

It's a damned shame, really.  They'd just gotten to where the system will just run and run forever, no matter what load you throw at it.

  

I'll bet 8 of those 12 cores are flat-lined at 0 nearly 100% of the time.

And 2 of the remaining 4 hardly get used either.

Except when IE11 gags on these extra-long threads.

Then all 12 cores are maxed-out.     : D

. . .

Thing is, Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 don't actually improve on the experience with such a system.  They're not faster, not prettier - and some serious features such as Windows Backup are deprecated.  What statement does that make?

It's pretty clear Microsoft, with Windows 8, is turning AWAY from high-end computing.

. . .   

Can I buy you a beer?

MSFT no longer cares about developers, system integrators, system administrators, or system engineers.  MSFT is catering to one group--and one group only--consumers.  The most fickle group of all that shows no loyalty whatsoever.

I think that Microsoft does care about developers but it has decided that it has no need for other IT professionals.  This is why TechNet was junked.  Microsoft's strategy is based on the following points

(a) Enterprise has nowhere else to go.  It is not about to triple costs to move to Mac OSX.  If enterprises decide not to update to Win8.x, they will have to do so by the next upgrade cycle.  Microsoft "knows" that it has the enterprise in its hand

(b) The consumers perceive value to a "Windows" mobile OS

(c) The Apple model is relevant

(d) There is space for a third mobile OS in the market

I think that point (a) is a given under the present conditions, unless Microsoft is "hit" by the HP, Intel and Samsung strategy from the low end (of providing desktops and laptops that run Android).  For all we know, Intel may be in talks with Google to make sure that Android 5.0 (Keylime Pie) is better adapted to the desktop/laptop.  This would enable Intel's vision of powerful chips in $200 - $300 laptops running Android.  Considering the evolution of productivity software in Android and the capability of running the web MS Office apps, (as well as the plethora of browsers for this platform), this may turn out to be a serious threat to Microsoft.

I think that Microsoft is wrong on (b)

In terms of (c), the declining fortunes of Apple in its "battle" with Android may show that the Apple model in mobile is as limited as the Apple model in the desktop/laptop

In terms of (d), I do not really think so, but the future would only show.  Microsoft, however, may have difficulties competing with "free".  So far, "Metro" and WinPhone have been "duds" in the consumer space; if Huawei buys Nokia, then Microsoft may have to kiss the smartphone market goodbye.

As in all shifts, there are great dangers in the "devices and services" new direction for Microsoft.  It is absolutely silly that this company has decided to compete in the ground of choosing of its competitors.

"TechNet was junked" - It is a very sad year indeed, first we are given Metro, then no TechNet.  You have made some very astute statements.

2013 what a year !

PS: I realise that Windows 8 was shoved out in 2012, but it wasn't until 2013 before we really started to see Windows 8 devices and real users having to purchase computers with it, before that it was mostly reviewers and IT people checking it out.  Hey, I am still waiting for some real, useful Tablet hardware to turn up, something with 4G, 10 hour battery life, effective Graphics ability, pen input, light weight, a powerful enough CPU to effectively applications.

I'll bet 8 of those 12 cores are flat-lined at 0 nearly 100% of the time.

And 2 of the remaining 4 hardly get used either.

 

Except when IE11 gags on these extra-long threads.

Then all 12 cores are maxed-out.     : D

The first part is true enough, save for when I do things that need them - such as software builds or complex image operations.

But no, the IE thrashing that occurs on Microsoft's own (re-re-re-designed) web site only apparently busies the equivalent one logical processor (there are two logical processors for each core, owing to Hyperthreading).  Thing is, Windows keeps giving the job to different logical processors.

Thanks, Darien.   :)

In my subjective usage and testing, I find that Windows 8/8.1 is somewhat faster.  Granted, this may be just wanting to believe it is faster, but it seems that way.

Thing is, EACH new operating system always feels faster than its predecessor, because what people often do is compare the out-of-box experience with the responsiveness of their loaded-up prior system.  I'm sure you're careful to keep your systems clean, but even so, you've no doubt installed some software, etc. that adds to the system load.

You might feel a freshly installed Windows 7 system feels faster than the one you're using now as well.

When Windows 8 RTM came out I SPECIFICALLY set up two identical systems, one each with Windows 7 x64 and Windows 8 x64, and configured them both as equivalently as possible.  To my surprise, the Windows 7 system was only running ONE MORE PROCESS than the Windows 8 system when the dust settled.  While Windows 8 booted up some 30% faster, neither system took that long, and even more surprisingly, many operations you might normally do (such as opening web pages, reading/copying a lot of data, accessing the file system, etc.) were no different in speed.

Certainly, there WERE a few operations that were marginally faster in Windows 8, but there were actually some that were slower, and it really worked out to be a wash.

Not sure who you were asking about a beer, but if we ever find ourselves in the same place we can alternate buying rounds.  :)

It is absolutely silly that this company has decided to compete in the ground of choosing of its competitors.

Hear hear!

Who declared that selling the arrangement of electrons has become a bad business to be in?  Especially with a foot in the door of a billion current customers!  Especially especially with virtually all of those customers connected to the network.

The more I use the preview 8.1, the more "broke" I see it is.   Playing simple music (MP3, MP4, M4A, etc.) media from the local drive via Media Player results in random skipping.  Same hardware that I had Window 7/8 installed on natively.  Nothing different other than Window 8.1.

Being a IT person in my shop, I have the ability and privilege to "test" 8.1 on my work laptop--along with multiple Hyper-V and ESXi VMs.  I have to admit that I am somewhat scared this time around--installing work laptop at home and will join domain Friday.  From what I see on my personal computer, I will be in for a good round of frustrations.

Not really to fret, I have a fully updated, authorized, domain joined VM at the ready for when 8.1 preview lets me down--which I am sure it will.

Don't get me wrong, I actually do like Windows 8/8.1.  I just wish MSFT would like it also and allow the OS to flourish.

It is absolutely silly that this company has decided to compete in the ground of choosing of its competitors.

Hear hear!

Who declared that selling the arrangement of electrons has become a bad business to be in?  Especially with a foot in the door of a billion current customers!  Especially especially with virtually all of those customers connected to the network.

 

No.

Absolutely No!

To me, this was a valiant effort, but ultimately a complete fail, IMHO.

For example:

1.  I detest that Skydrive is the default.  If I want "cloud" storage, I will use the NAS drive that I have.  I love you Microsoft, but I do not trust my files to anyone.  Not even you.  And for the default to be the Skydrive is just plain ludicrous.

2.  Bring back Windows Explorer!  Why can't you just put a "drive" letter, etc. for the Skydrive?

3.  File Explorer is a piece of junk.  For example, when I click on File Explorer on my Toolbar, the screen changes color and then my PC crashes back out to the desktop.  If I go to the Start screen and click on File Explorer, same thing happens.  If I right-click on File Explorer and click open file location, I can see my user folders, etc., but as soon as I click on My PC, or any folder, guess what happens?  You guessed it!  It crashes back out to the desk top.  Wait!  What if I go to Internet Explorer, type c:\ and go to the parent directories that way?  No dice, because as soon as I click on the C:\ drive, guess what happens?  You guys must be physic (joke) cause you got it right again.  Wait!  What if I start Firefox and go to the C:\ drive that way?  It works!  And I can see sub folders!   But the commands are limited so it is pretty useless.  So, I have tried every way that I can think of and cannot get to my C:\ drive and files or folders.  What is that you ask, why don't I just go to the C: prompt and use commands?  I did.  And it did.  Crash back out to the desktop, that is.

4. Why is the Command Prompt so hard to get to?  I don't understand.

5. I am now getting an error that says "Bad Pool Call" or something like that. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. I shutdown my computer, removed the drive with W8.1, attached my 2T clone drive with W8, and rebooted. Bye Bye W8.1, I am through with you.  This post is coming from my cloned drive with W8. 

6.  Can someone tell me an easy(?) way to go from W8 back to W7Ultimate?  I am not an old school kind of guy, but the cart is about three states in front of the horse on this product.

FYI, I build my own computers.  This one is an I-5 Third Gen with an MSIZ77A-G43 motherboard and 32G of DDR2100 RAM (I believe it's 2100.  Can't handle the slow stuff). 

Peace, and have a safe 4th.

thirdpole

Vietnam '67-'68

 

3.  File Explorer is a piece of junk.  For example, when I click on File Explorer on my Toolbar, the screen changes color and then my PC crashes back out to the desktop.  If I go to the Start screen and click on File Explorer, same thing happens.  If I right-click on File Explorer and click open file location, I can see my user folders, etc., but as soon as I click on My PC, or any folder, guess what happens?  You guessed it!  It crashes back out to the desk top.  Wait!  What if I go to Internet Explorer, type c:\ and go to the parent directories that way?  No dice, because as soon as I click on the C:\ drive, guess what happens?  You guys must be physic (joke) cause you got it right again.  Wait!  What if I start Firefox and go to the C:\ drive that way?  It works!  And I can see sub folders!   But the commands are limited so it is pretty useless.  So, I have tried every way that I can think of and cannot get to my C:\ drive and files or folders.  What is that you ask, why don't I just go to the C: prompt and use commands?  I did.  And it did.  Crash back out to the desktop, that is.

[....]

Peace, and have a safe 4th.

thirdpole

Vietnam '67-'68

For what it's worth

Try deleting  HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Modules\NavPane  and rebooting.  That's been the fix for me, since W7.

a happy 4th to you too, thirdpole

Hi there, in response to your statement "when I click on File Explorer on my Toolbar, the screen changes color and then my PC crashes back out to the desktop", do you mean that File Explorer dies when you try to use it?   If this is what is happening for you, I am guessing that you have a corruption or faulty drivers in your installation of Windows 8.1.  While I really do not like Windows 8.x's Metro interface and applications, the Desktop File Explorer have never failed me and has worked as expected on all of the Windows 8 installations (only about 10 so far) that I have installed.

I have found that Windows 8 and 8.1 is very stable and reliable, just that the Metro applications are difficult to use or simply lack the sophistication or functionality of Desktop applications.  For example SkyDrive in Metro SkyDrive a) has no tree view, and b) when I copied several files it created new copies of any files that already existed, instead of asking me if I wanted to overwrite the file, not to copy the file (since it was already there), or to create a new copy.  At least it could have asked me.

Did you know that you can access SkyDrive from File Explorer (which is Windows Explorer updated a bit), File Explorer makes managing SkyDrive much easier that Metro SkyDrive.  Well maybe you don't because File Explorer crashes on you.  I would recommend a Windows rebuild or reinstall?  Check motherboard drivers?  IN my main computer, I did have issues with my RAID card not being fully seated and this caused a few crashes before I resolved the issue.  I hope you get to try Windows 8.1 in a good working environment.

Hello Aussie.

Did you notice in my screenshot above, I was able to crash File Explorer a dozen times in a row, separated only seconds apart?  Squint closely and notice the text:  Explorer.exe, version 6.3.9431.0   That's this W8.1 Preview.

Also notice the date, July 2.  That means I did that two days ago.  I didn't think there was any point in mentioning it though.  It would only attract MS apologists and bug-deniers.  ahem.

But today is different.  Thirdpole offered his unsolicited description of that same BUG.

A bug which has been with us since Win 7.  So I thought I'd celebrate the 4th and chime in.

Here's an equivalent screenshot I posted nearly one year ago with Win 8.  (Aug 05, 2012 12:54 AM).  That 272 message thread is dedicated to the topic of Explorer bugs.  You may need to wait a few minutes for it to load, if you're using IE11.

Here's another post describing it that'll load much faster for you.  (Only 9 replies).

You can click the shot embedded in the quote there for more details.  My favorite shot in that post is this one.  Like how the screen is alpha'd-out?  I'm such a sucker for effects like that.  I just adore them.

I'm still waiting for MS to reward my efforts with a 6-core X dual-cpu system like Noel's.   : )

But this.  Oh this.  It's the weirdest File Explorer effect of all.

What do you make of it?

G'day to you,

I would like to try reproducing the File Explorer bug, what do you do to cause the bug to occur ?

I can't tell you that.  It's my secret, and mine alone.

I'm holding out for MS to reward me with a super-duper test computer.

Or at least, a gratis TechNet subscription.

Works good here, in win 8.1

I can't tell you that.  It's my secret, and mine alone.

I'm holding out for MS to reward me with a super-duper test computer.

Or at least, a gratis TechNet subscription.

http://www.angusj.com/resourcehacker/

exposed

Unlike you colakid, I have no need to substitute snideness for intelligence.

Start with my earlier Explorer bug animation as an experiment.

You should at least be able to repro that.  It's not very challenging.

6.  Can someone tell me an easy(?) way to go from W8 back to W7Ultimate?  I am not an old school kind of guy, but the cart is about three states in front of the horse on this product.

FYI, I build my own computers.  This one is an I-5 Third Gen with an MSIZ77A-G43 motherboard and 32G of DDR2100 RAM (I believe it's 2100.  Can't handle the slow stuff). 

Peace, and have a safe 4th.

thirdpole

Vietnam '67-'68

 

 

downgrade.There are a number of instructions in the web as to how to downgrade to Win7.

Love it and here we find the blue code name

I can't tell you that.  It's my secret, and mine alone.

I'm holding out for MS to reward me with a super-duper test computer.

Or at least, a gratis TechNet subscription.

http://www.angusj.com/resourcehacker/

exposed

CokaKid, you don't need to hack Windows 8.1 to expose Explorer bugs.  They come naturally enough by themselves.  You just need to pay attention.  And not have an ambition to deny those bugs you see.

To be perfectly clear, the only tool I used to illustrate all the bugs shown above and earlier was W8.1 File Explorer itself.

For added disclosure.  Here are a couple of frames I omitted from the sequence directly above.  Location Not Found dialog and Item Not Found dialog.  They were too distracting in the animation because they were so unsightly.  Have a look at them and weep.

Tsk tsk.

   Have a look at them and weep.

Tsk tsk.

Sry, I don't have your extensive problem, Reset windows and try again.

If problem continues, go here to submit your bug, MS staff will email you

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows8_1_pr

Sry, I don't have your extensive problem, Reset windows and try again.

Gladly, I don't have your extensive problem.

You apparently have no ability to follow simple instructions, colakid.

Simple illustrated instructions that reveal Win 8.1 bugs.

Bugs that have been with us since Win 7.

Instructions so simple, even a retard could complete them.

since using windows 8.1 my luck is getten better. P'uter works great, never get bsod, errors, fishing been great. Thanks windows 8 for the fish finder app for my fish finder

Got 10 in total, 2 northerns, 3 walleyes, the rest bass

You use a fish-finder from shore, do you?

Pic your boat starcraft 20foot, or rubber 4man boat with homemade motor mount, this trip I used the rubber boat with a star finder.

The fry

If we have digressed to discussing fishing and food, all be it great things to discuss, then we must be off topic, which was regards how we find the improvements in Windows 8.1.

As for the "bug" in Windows 8.1 which was there in Windows 7, I have seen this bug and can recreate it too.  I believe it is an issue with the "Tree view" not being always being refreshed/updated when a folder is deleted. Since I know it is there, I just work around it, like press "F5" to refresh the Tree, or just laugh, wondering why it has not been fixed.

Anyway, back to topic please, what are Windows 8.1 strengths and weaknesses, just maybe, maybe Microsoft's lead designers will be sifting through this thread and take note, but not if we appear to be just whiners and whingers.  We need to put forward honest and reasonable reasons should we perceive problems. Pointing out the bug is good, but starting a specific thread for it would be best.

My "grip" that I try to present here is the issue for people, especially large companies in educating people in the vastly different interface, an interface which is obviously for Touch devices and is a step back in usability for Desktop users, and in an environment where as the majority of the 1 billion Windows users are still using non-touch screen desktops with mice (just like I am both at home and at work).  I see many people struggle with accessing the Charms menu and Start menu, yet alone knowing what to do with them.

I also appreciate the overlaying Windows which we have had since Windows 286, (maybe Windows 1), that OS X has, that Unix has, that Linux has. I do not support the change to Metro style windows, it is such a loss of functionality. 

Last night I was trying to solve a WebDAV issue in Windows 8.1 (also in Windows 7 and 8.0), where I was trying to use Metro Mail to display a response to the issue I raised, while also displaying "Internet Options" to configure my internet options as per the response.  I was unable to get these two items to display the information that I required on the screen at the same time.  The positioning of Metro apps (cannot call it windowing), is just not workable.

My hope is that Microsoft will realise at some time that Metro is not for the 1 billion existing Windows users, but it is for the 500,000 Tablet users they want.  If the Metro apps had the functionality that iPad apps have, then I will be happy to use Metro on my Tablet, but never want to use them on my Desktop, not unless Metro apps can be viewed in resizable windows on my desktop.

As for the "bug" in Windows 8.1 which was there in Windows 7, I have seen this bug and can recreate it too.  I believe it is an issue with the "Tree view" not being always being refreshed/updated when a folder is deleted. Since I know it is there, I just work around it, like press "F5" to refresh the Tree, or just laugh, wondering why it has not been fixed.

Regarding the Explorer bugs (plural) that have been with us since W7.

As an IT Pro, I'm sure you've had occasion to juggle 10 thousands of files and folders in a single session.  In the process, you might make some scratch folders just for temporary use.  Yes?  It can happen, as illustrated earlier above, to get a "phantom" folder during the steps, and then get confused into deleting the valid folder containing critical files and their data.  We're lucky if we immediately notice it (like you mentioned) before getting tricked into deleting the wrong folder.  Instead of days later, after reboot, when that "phantom" finally disappears and the critical files are lost.  Then it's no laughing matter at all, friend.

Last night I was trying to solve a WebDAV issue in Windows 8.1 (also in Windows 7 and 8.0), where I was trying to use Metro Mail to display a response to the issue I raised, while also displaying "Internet Options" to configure my internet options as per the response.  I was unable to get these two items to display the information that I required on the screen at the same time.  The positioning of Metro apps (cannot call it windowing), is just not workable.

Regarding WebDAV.

Here's a Win 8 thread from a while back where I ran into several bugs experimenting around with it.  Really weird bugs, sometimes with connect failures upon booting, sometimes with inconsistent mappings between Admin versus Standard user accounts.  Have a look.

Here's a thread I just responded to, where, besides discovering a sequence of deprecations which has occurred over the past few Windows generations, it now turns out IE11 doesn't support MS proprietary DHTML "Behaviors" anymore.  Those "Behavior" methods are used to enable IE as a WebDAV client (but not anymore with IE11).  Are you aware that with earlier IE versions, you could get a WebDAV folder view, just like with FTP folders?  Well, that got pruned some time back (with IE8 I think, it's hard to follow the anti-progress).

So what?  So nothing, I guess.