Windows Search in File Explorer brings results, if I stop Windows Search service

Hello!

First I'm happy to found a way, if Search don't react.
If I stop the service 'Windows Search' I have the items in File Explorer.

(Restart of the service often brings no result, it works, only if I stop the service .)

Is there a easier way to get find results?

This with 8.1 Prof 64 bit

May 4th, 2015 1:58pm

Hi,

Generally speaking, when this problem occurs, it caused by too large amount of files in current searching folder. You can try to restart Windows file explorer for test.

Free Windows Admin Tool Kit Click here and download it now
May 5th, 2015 2:43am

Restart Windows file explorer and search again bring no search results.

Also reboot and first after starting file explorer bring no search results.

Only if I stop the service Windows Search the search results are displayed suddenly.

May 5th, 2015 10:32am

It seems like there is a problem with Windows Search, please try to use Search Troubleshooter fix this problem:

Control Panel\All Control Panel Items\Troubleshooting\All Categories

Free Windows Admin Tool Kit Click here and download it now
May 5th, 2015 9:54pm

Is there a easier way to get find results?

Sounds like you want to ignore your index.  You can do that with Folder Options but perhaps what you are doing would be equally efficient.  FWIW I don't think the index was intended for handling everything, just selected stuff that you want to access frequently.  What bugs me is that we are left oblivious of what it contains and therefore cannot get any insight about what we should and should not include. 

However, another interesting test for your case would be content.  For example, are you able to find data inside files which do not get indexed or searched because of their IFilters? Then that might mean if you wanted to keep using the index but still find content that could not be searched that you would have to change the IFilters for such file extensions.  A specific example that I am thinking of I encountered recently is .WER  Evidently we are not allowed to search it (using File Explorer).  I tried using Plaintext but even that was not enough.  Perhaps I could use an XML IFilter instead?  How?  There is no UI for doing that.  It probably requires a registry hack.  Maybe I could find the XML Filter, copy it and name the copy so it would be seen as a WER IFilter?  Who knows?

May 5th, 2015 10:22pm

I ran the troubleshooting with administrator rights
and got 

  Problems found

   Incorrect permissions on Windows Search directories   Not fixed

to Robert Aldwinckle:
In the search results are also such belonging to the content of a file.

In the mentioned case there is also no progress bar in file explorer.

Erhy

Free Windows Admin Tool Kit Click here and download it now
May 6th, 2015 8:31am

In the mentioned case there is also no progress bar in file explorer.

I just remembered that at one time stopping and disabling wsearch meant that you could not have a Search bar period, so are you sure that the service you think you stopped is really stopped?  Often they get restarted and the only way to really stop them is to disable and then stop them.

FWIW I found that .WER files (my example of a search that Windows Search can't/won't do) still can't be searched (for content) even if WSearch is stopped.  I forgot to try to disable it too.  Simplest way to do that is to use a cmd window

sc config wsearch start= disabled
net stop wsearch

So, it looks like all you are doing is preventing the Search bar from first trying to use the index to find stuff.  Perhaps if it finds stuff in the index it doesn't have to bother trying to find more stuff not in the index that is on the same drive and in the same directories?  Who knows?  This is a "discoverable" (undocumented, unspecified) UX.  WYSIWYG.

May 6th, 2015 10:18am

Thanks for the quick answer Robert.

I need the search in Windows desktop and mostly it works.
So I want not to stop the service at all.

Only in one folder tree I have the problems as noted.

If I select this folder in file explorer and input a word in the search field
nothing happens, no progress bar, no hourglass.
I let the file explorer in this state and stop the Windows Search service
than instantly all search results are shown in file explorer.

A bit later, a look to the services shows that Windows Search service is running again, so I don't need to restart it. 

Erhy

Free Windows Admin Tool Kit Click here and download it now
May 6th, 2015 12:14pm

Only in one folder tree I have the problems as noted.

Is it on a different drive?  Others have inexplicably had problems with WS when they try to find things on the root of a different drive.  As I indicated WS is too much of a Blackbox for self support.  I suggested those other users might try ProcMon for clues but have no idea what they might see.  At least in your case you could have two traces, one working and one not.

Good luck

May 7th, 2015 11:04am

 try ProcMon for clues

Taking a cue from this article

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dd569142%28v=vs.85%29.aspx

<quote>
 (netsh trace show providers lists every one of the available providers, including ones that are not relevant to networking).
</quote>

perhaps you could supplement your traces by activating one or more of these

C:\>netsh trace show providers | find /i "search" | sort /+40
{34802B7D-1869-4E4A-B72B-49B3621F23C0}  Microsoft-Windows-Connected-Search
{CA4E628D-8567-4896-AB6B-835B221F373F}  Microsoft-Windows-Search
{49C2C27C-FE2D-40BF-8C4E-C3FB518037E7}  Microsoft-Windows-Search-Core
{FC6F77DD-769A-470E-BCF9-1B6555A118BE}  Microsoft-Windows-Search-ProfileNotify
{DAB065A9-620F-45BA-B5D6-D6BB8EFEDEE9}  Microsoft-Windows-Search-ProtocolHandlers
{606C6FE0-A9DC-4A9D-BDEA-830AFF6716E7}  Microsoft-Windows-Shell-Search-UriHandler
{D8965FCF-7397-4E0E-B750-21A4580BD880}  Microsoft-Windows-UI-Search

FWIW I was unable to spot a specific "scenario" which would otherwise pick some relevant ones as a group.

Still haven't found how WS is supposed to work and validate itself for us.

Free Windows Admin Tool Kit Click here and download it now
May 8th, 2015 7:39am

Robert, thank you for your efforts!

As you adviced I made the traces.

The files are in my OneDrive
and I would like to share the folder with you and colleagues.

Please tell me how to do.

Erhy


  • Edited by Erhy 10 hours 32 minutes ago want not to share the files for public
May 9th, 2015 12:54pm

Robert, thank you for your efforts!

As you adviced I made the traces.

The files are in my OneDrive
and I would like to share the folder with you and colleagues.

Please tell me how to do.

Erhy


  • Edited by Erhy Saturday, May 09, 2015 8:49 PM want not to share the files for public
Free Windows Admin Tool Kit Click here and download it now
May 9th, 2015 4:52pm

Robert, thank you for your efforts!

As you adviced I made the traces.

The files are in my OneDrive
and I would like to share the folder with you and colleagues.

Please tell me how to do.

Erhy


  • Edited by Erhy Saturday, May 09, 2015 8:49 PM want not to share the files for public
May 9th, 2015 4:52pm

Robert, thank you for your efforts!

As you adviced I made the traces.

The files are in my OneDrive
and I would like to share the folder with you and colleagues.

Please tell me how to do.

Erhy


  • Edited by Erhy Saturday, May 09, 2015 8:49 PM want not to share the files for public
Free Windows Admin Tool Kit Click here and download it now
May 9th, 2015 4:52pm

Please tell me how to do.

I don't know.  I only know how to use Publicly accessible downloads.  Unfortunately I only downloaded your ReadMe.txt.  Those looked like they would be an impressive collection for someone to dig into.  Good work.

BTW thanks for figuring out the syntax on the netsh trace command for multiple providers.  (Why didn't I think of that?)   ; )

Robert
---

May 9th, 2015 5:56pm

have shared the OneDrive folder with

Microsoft TechNet Program Support Team

tsubserv@microsoft.com

I hope they know your mail address.

Erhy

Free Windows Admin Tool Kit Click here and download it now
May 10th, 2015 5:50am

Hello Robert!

You find the files of my traces here

http://1drv.ms/1E7N37F

Please delete the files after download.

Thank you so much for any results

Erhy

May 14th, 2015 4:01pm

Hello Robert!

You find the files of my traces here

http://1drv.ms/1E7N37F

Please delete the files after download.

Thank you so much for any results

Erhy


  • Edited by Erhy 21 hours 11 minutes ago to point the link
Free Windows Admin Tool Kit Click here and download it now
May 14th, 2015 8:00pm

Hello Robert!

You find the files of my traces here

http://1drv.ms/1E7N37F

Please delete the files after download.

Thank you so much for any results

Erhy


  • Edited by Erhy Saturday, May 16, 2015 10:10 AM to point the link
May 14th, 2015 8:00pm

Hello Robert!

You find the files of my traces here

http://1drv.ms/1E7N37F

Please delete the files after download.

Thank you so much for any results

Erhy


  • Edited by Erhy Saturday, May 16, 2015 10:10 AM to point the link
Free Windows Admin Tool Kit Click here and download it now
May 14th, 2015 8:00pm

Hello Robert!

You find the files of my traces here

http://1drv.ms/1E7N37F

Please delete the files after download.

Thank you so much for any results

Erhy


  • Edited by Erhy Saturday, May 16, 2015 10:10 AM to point the link
May 14th, 2015 8:00pm

You find the files of my traces here

Have you tried to get anything out of them yourself?

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/hh448170.aspx

I'm teaching myself how to use WPA.

Free Windows Admin Tool Kit Click here and download it now
May 16th, 2015 4:25pm

WPA is Windows Performance Analyces

I have 16 GB RAM.
Think, this should be enough for performance 

May 18th, 2015 4:16am

WPA is Windows Performance Analyces

That's what opens when I try to open the .ETL files.
Free Windows Admin Tool Kit Click here and download it now
May 18th, 2015 9:43am

I have just reread this thread and got two more ideas for possible tacks to proceed from:

  1. You had some unresolved permissions problems when you tried the Search troubleshooter.  How about running ProcMon to see if it could help you understand those?
  2. While trying to learn more about Search implementation I went back to my problem example of searching WER content and did a Saved Search for what it was trying to do for me.  Then I opened that in Notepad, found the XML didn't read easily that way, saved it as .XML (instead of as .search-ms which IE would not read) and then was able to open it in IE.  If you have an XML editor I suppose that would be even easier.  Anyway, the results are inscrutable to me but FWIW I suspect it is being overspecified and that probably accounts for why nothing is being found.  Then I wonder if a possibility might be editing the Saved Search to make a new, less specified one, based on the generated one?  TBD.
  3. Then doing both 1 and 2 and comparing the two traces could help with understanding what each is doing, e.g. by noting the differences and understanding at a basic level what should be happening.

 
I still intend to try to understand your .etl files and compare them but I think that this new idea might be more practical.

 

May 18th, 2015 1:07pm

for me it is comfortable to open the
.etl files with Event Viewer
with 'open saved logs'.

But can't interpret the entries.

Often I see such hints:
The description for Event ID 322 from source Microsoft-Windows-Search-Core cannot be found.  

Erhy

Free Windows Admin Tool Kit Click here and download it now
May 19th, 2015 12:09pm

 open the .etl files with Event Viewer

Oops.  Of course.  Why didn't I think of that?

OK.  That has given me a new idea.  Is Norton interfering?  Or is it just coincidence that it seems involved in the traces?

But now I know why we should be trying to figure out how to use the WPA.   ; )

May 19th, 2015 2:19pm

I made a trace with Windows Performance Recorder ,
while no search results, even after stopping Windows Search Service -
there are no performance problems -
at second 17 I fill the input field for search of file explorer
at second 33  I stopped Windows Search Service.

Erhy

(PS.
Robert has access to
search_in_H_users_gle_Weitere_Personen_without_result_even_by_stop_Windows_Search_Service.zip in one of my OneDrive folders.
)




Free Windows Admin Tool Kit Click here and download it now
May 20th, 2015 11:39am

I made a trace with Windows Performance Recorder

The point about WPA is that it gets default file extension association for .etl files.  So, now that you have WPT installed I suspect .etl files will now be opening for you in WPA too.  Then can you get an insights with it for your original traces?

A related tack I am looking at is that apparently NetMon can read .etl files too.  Who knows what it will do with ones that Search related diagnostics create?  TBD.

May 20th, 2015 1:19pm

for me, WPA shows no tables of events, also in the original traces.

I ran NetMon but don't know how to see Search diagnostics in NetMon.

I think the best is to hope Windows 10 has a better Windows Search functionality.

Erhy

Free Windows Admin Tool Kit Click here and download it now
May 22nd, 2015 4:05am

I think the best is to hope Windows 10 has a better Windows Search functionality.

It doesn't.  I get just as frustrated with its usability.

What about the Saved Search idea?  Any clues from that?

May 22nd, 2015 9:39am

please tell me more about
Saved Search

Is it a software like Google Desktop?

Erhy

Free Windows Admin Tool Kit Click here and download it now
May 23rd, 2015 5:52am

Saved Search

is a standard feature of the FE UI.  Only shown in the Search Tools tab (so press Ctrl-e).  Only active after you have done a search.  Those get saved (evidently) into our Searches folder in %LocalAppData%.

Now, my suggestion is, to find what gets saved.  Evidently it is saved there as an XML file which gets renamed with a  .search-ms extension.  Then open it in an XML editor or as I mentioned copy it as .xml and view it in IE.

FWIW I still have not tried my proposal of actually modifying one and seeing if a less constrained "saved search" produces any more desirable results.  TBD.

May 23rd, 2015 10:42am

now I discovered Windows Search and tried it.
If I open such a file with text editor 
I see its XML but without the entries found.

The begin of the content in such a file is

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<persistedQuery version="1.0"><viewInfo viewMode="details" iconSize="16" stackIconSize="0" displayName="Search Results in Documents" autoListFlags="0"><visibleColumns><column viewField="System.ItemNameDisplay"/><column viewField="System.DateModified"/>

I saved the problematic search which got results after stopping Windows Search service.
If I click to the resulting file in "Searches" there is the same problem as discussed.

 
Free Windows Admin Tool Kit Click here and download it now
May 23rd, 2015 4:49pm

The begin of the content in such a file is

Not very readable?  Now copy it and save it as .xml and see what it looks like in IE (or your XML Editor).
May 23rd, 2015 5:15pm

Saved Search for the problematic search:

<?xml version="1.0"?>

<persistedQuery version="1.0">

<viewInfo viewMode="details" iconSize="16" stackIconSize="0" displayName="Search Res

ults in Weitere_Personen" autoListFlags="0">

<visibleColumns>

<column viewField="System.ItemNameDisplay"/>

<column viewField="System.DateModified"/>

<column viewField="System.ItemTypeText"/>

<column viewField="System.Size"/>

<column viewField="System.ItemFolderPathDisplayNarrow"/>

</visibleColumns>

<sortList>

<sort viewField="System.Search.Rank" direction="descending"/>

<sort viewField="System.DateModified" direction="descending"/>

<sort viewField="System.ItemNameDisplay" direction="ascending"/>

</sortList>

</viewInfo>

<query>

<conditions>

<condition type="leafCondition" property="System.Generic.String" operator="wordmatch

" propertyType="string" value="Jean" localeName="en-US">

<attributes>

<attribute attributeID="{9554087B-CEB6-45AB-99FF-50E8428E860D}" clsid="{C64B9B66-E53

D-4C56-B9AE-FEDE4EE95DB1}" chs="1" sqro="585" timestamp_low="2706265632" timestamp_h

igh="30447000">

<condition type="leafCondition" property="System.Generic.String" operator="wordmatch

" propertyType="string" value="Jean" localeName="en-US">

<attributes>

<attribute attributeID="{9554087B-CEB6-45AB-99FF-50E8428E860D}" clsid="{C64B9B66-E53

D-4C56-B9AE-FEDE4EE95DB1}" chs="1" sqro="585" timestamp_low="1910470050" timestamp_h

igh="30447000">

<condition type="leafCondition" property="" operator="imp" propertyType="string" val

ue="Jean" localeName="en-US">

<attributes>

<attribute attributeID="{9554087B-CEB6-45AB-99FF-50E8428E860D}" clsid="{C64B9B66-E53

D-4C56-B9AE-FEDE4EE95DB1}" chs="0" parsedString="Jean" localeName="en-US" timestamp_

low="1910470050" timestamp_high="30447000"/>

</attributes>

</condition>

</attribute>

</attributes>

</condition>

</attribute>

</attributes>

</condition>

</conditions>

<kindList>

<kind name="item"/>

</kindList>

<scope>

<include path="::{20D04FE0-3AEA-1069-A2D8-08002B30309D}\H:\Users\gle\Weitere_Personen" attributes="1887568255"/>

</scope>

</query>

<properties>

<author Type="string">

gle</author>

</properties>

</persistedQuery>

Free Windows Admin Tool Kit Click here and download it now
May 24th, 2015 1:40am

<include path="::{20D04FE0-3AEA-1069-A2D8-08002B30309D}\H:\Users\gle\Weitere_Personen" attributes="1887568255"/>

There is just one example of something being possibly overspecified.  Does that GUID mean anything to you on your system?  I guess it is a Share?  And what do those attributes mean?  Do they get satisfied by that folder?  If it is supposed to be a decimal representation of a bitstring it would be quite a collection of bits, e.g. in hex 0x7082017F  any one of which might be enough for WS to say: "not this time."

Since we didn't get very far with the .etl stuff I would still suggest you try using ProcMon if only to see if *anything* tries to read from that directory for the cases when WS is balking.  Having the .etl trace running then would allow you to see also some context for the stuff that you already have.  E.g. assuming the .etl records are written as generated those events might be seen in a ProcMon trace with negligible delay, so then preceding registry and file access events could be supplementary clues to explain the .etl data.  This was actually my reason for suggesting the .etl stuff in the first place, since I didn't know how to format it or read it (although I am now making a bit of headway by using Netmon 3.4 plus parsers which are available on Connect and I still haven't given up on the idea of eventually being able to make WPA usable for this.)

May 24th, 2015 12:34pm


I will make a Procmon log.

the folder is a normal folder in a partition.

Can it interfere, that in an other partition exists a link to the problematic folder
made with mklink /J
But I have more of them, whereat Windows Search have no problems.

the mysterious key means "This PC"  :

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\CLSID\{20D04FE0-3AEA-1069-A2D8-08002B30309D}]
@="This PC"
"InfoTip"=hex(2):40,00,25,00,53,00,79,00,73,00,74,00,65,00,6d,00,52,00,6f,00,\
6f,00,74,00,25,00,5c,00,73,00,79,00,73,00,74,00,65,00,6d,00,33,00,32,00,5c,\
00,73,00,68,00,65,00,6c,00,6c,00,33,00,32,00,2e,00,64,00,6c,00,6c,00,2c,00,\
2d,00,32,00,32,00,39,00,31,00,33,00,00,00
"LocalizedString"=hex(2):40,00,25,00,53,00,79,00,73,00,74,00,65,00,6d,00,52,00,\
6f,00,6f,00,74,00,25,00,5c,00,73,00,79,00,73,00,74,00,65,00,6d,00,33,00,32,\
00,5c,00,73,00,68,00,65,00,6c,00,6c,00,33,00,32,00,2e,00,64,00,6c,00,6c,00,\
2c,00,2d,00,39,00,32,00,31,00,36,00,00,00
"System.PropList.DetailsPaneNullSelectTitle"="prop:System.Computer.SimpleName;*System.Computer.Description"
"System.Keywords"="@%windir%\\system32\\shell32.dll,-9012"
"System.PropList.DetailsPaneNullSelect"="prop:*System.Computer.DomainName;*System.Computer.Workgroup;*System.Computer.Processor;System.Computer.Memory"

... etc.

Free Windows Admin Tool Kit Click here and download it now
May 25th, 2015 11:41am

Can it interfere, that in an other partition exists a link to the problematic folder
made with mklink /J

Your example was H:\  Is it not a real drive either?

the mysterious key means "This PC"  :


OK.  Sorry.  I suppose I should have known that.  Then maybe those attributes= are just as innocuous too.   Who knows?

But seeing those Properties under it also make me wonder about whether they could be limiting the scope of the search.  Obviously not always because This PC is where most finds occur.

Sorry for the dead ends.  Another tack that I once looked at but probably not deeply enough is trying to use the Windows SDK.  There is stuff in there designed to help developers make iFilters.

May 25th, 2015 12:42pm

have installed  Visual Studio Community 2013

If you know a example source for steering Windows Search by software
I would try a test.

Erhy

Free Windows Admin Tool Kit Click here and download it now
May 26th, 2015 12:35pm

This topic is archived. No further replies will be accepted.

Other recent topics Other recent topics