I really hope that Win7 will become available without IE because :- It constantly freezes- It constantly stops reponding- MS remains silent about these problems- MS refuses to update Win7 beta 7000 with the RC version of IE8- In others words : MS remains obstinate and stubborn as usualI like Win7 so far, but I dislike MS even more because of their behavior towards the beta-testers- they like to get our feedback- but they do not give any feedback at all in return- on top of that, they completely ignore our prayers when it comes to IE8 updates that all other packages (XP, Vista) got in the meantimeFor me it has become clear :- I will only buy Win7 if it becomes available WITHOUTIE - I have never been using another browser since IE became available (it was 1994 if I am not mistaking)- With the IE8 beta that comes with Win7 beta 7000, MS succeded in disappointing me so much that I completely changed my mind.As far as I am concerned : I am done with the Win7 beta testing, unless MS becomes a bit more communicative, showing a bit more interest in the problems that we encounter with this miserable IE8 alpha (one cannot call it a beta).

The version of IE8 included in Windows 7 as you have noticed is not the same as is currently being tested standalone. MS obviously have their reasons for not allowing us to run the newest version of IE8 inside Windows 7, although i have no idea what those might be. Personally im using Firefox(x86), Minefield(x64) and Opera(x86) quite happily, after having all sorts of problems with the IE 8 included in Windows 7. Also on the Beta signup page MS stated they wouldnt respond to feedback left and suggested by beta testers, however, i believe if you are signed up to connect, and log a bug there, it gets feedback. However i'm not sure whether you have to be a technet plus user or not for that.

Oh yeah, I am sure that they have a reason for not providing us with the IE-RC version in Win7 beta 7000.But they should inform us about that reason, they should let us know what the programmed improvements are and when we are going to get them.It's fine with me (and I fully agreed upon it) that we (public beta testers - the real beta testers have been testing way before us, so what did they do exactly) to be used as aGuinea-pig, but a minimum of consideration would be appreciated.I think that a lot of people suffer from the IE8 problems in Win 7 beta 7000 :- MS should communicate at least SOMETHING about it- MS should at least tell us WHY WE CANNOT HAVE the IE8 RC version- MS should STOP IGNORING us and our problems- MS should STOP THEIR UNBEARALE ARROGANCY towards us, who are helping them to avoid for a second Vista disaster.I am using FireFox too by now (too many problems with that stupid IE8 version) and I am at a point of now return to IE (whatever version) thanks to the above mentioned MS-arrogancy.And in that case Iwill not buy a Windows 7 version later on, with a browser included that I will never use !

Calm Down!!The version of IE8 in Windows 7 is a Pre-Release Candidate (a newer build than the Beta 2 release for Vista/XP) and includes technologies and features exclusive to Windows 7. When the RC of Windows 7 is available It will most likely include the RC of IE8, apparently internal test builds already have it running.This is what happens in a Beta, because, er, ITS A BETA! If you can't learn how to beta test properly then i suggest you stop doing it, and how can MS respond to every single piece of feedback. They do respond though, thats how the behaviour of UAC was changed, through feedback!!

This is what I did and My explorer hasn't froze since: Microsoft deployed a configuration change which exposed this problem. The script provided below removes those changes (registry keys) to prevent further CEIP related crashes.*Detailed instructions:1.Select and copy the following to your clipboard:reg delete HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\SQMClient\Windows\DisabledSessions /va /f2. Click on "Start", then "All Programs", then "Accessories"3. Right click on "Command Prompt", then click on "Run as administrator" 4. In the UAC prompt, verify that the programs name is "Windows Command Processor" and then click "Yes" 5. Right click on the "Administrator: Command Prompt" windows black area, then select "Paste" 6. Press "Enter", you should see The operation completed successfully. If you see ERROR: Access is denied, please make sure you followed Step 3. 7. Close the "Administrator: Command Prompt window"Hope this helps you also. chamblisstom@bellsouth.netAdded by Forum Moderator:Warning: While this solution solves the issue or problem, serious problems might occur if you modify the registry incorrectly by using Registry Editor or by using another method. These problems might require that you reinstall the operating system. Microsoft cannot guarantee that these problems can be solved. Modify the registry at your own risk. For more information about modifying the registry, see Microsoft support article 256986.

Picsoe said: I am using FireFox too by now (too many problems with that stupid IE8 version) and I am at a point of now return to IE (whatever version) thanks to the above mentioned MS-arrogancy.And in that case Iwill not buy a Windows 7 version later on, with a browser included that I will never use !I use IE and FF. No problems with IE! Not even BETA IE. Its like others have problems with this and that... Now, IE has a few small issues, but this a BETA and it is working very well in my opinion. FF has a lot of issues too and it is final. Oh, I use IE and FF to develop sites too, not just surfing the web. Visual Studio uses IE too and other programs. I too think that it is nice to say bad about IE and Vista, cause it's fashion! And I too think that there are lots of people who don't even know how to configure the computer. Have you realized that there are people using IE every day? With no problems? Or the computer?I use Windows 7 with a few issues, mostly Aero (that I dont use) but it works very well and it is Beta! Its a development machine, it has SQL server, IIS, anti-virus, FPS games! You name it!Well, I'm blessed I guess! Adelino Araujo

Picsoe said: I really hope that Win7 will become available without IE because :- It constantly freezes- It constantly stops reponding- MS remains silent about these problems- MS refuses to update Win7 beta 7000 with the RC version of IE8- In others words : MS remains obstinate and stubborn as usual.I can understand your frustration, it's not easytesting a pre-release version of any product, especially an operating system. But this is what testing beta code is all about. :)The current version of the IE 8 beta included in Windows 7 beta underwent internal testing to make sure that it was stable enoughin Windows 7. Introducing a newer version of IE8 Beta could cause more problems than it solves. You just cannot mix different beta products. Don't give up yet,a newer version of IE8, maybe the RC or even the final version will be included in the nextbuild of Windows 7 beta. I like Win7 so far, but I dislike MS even more because of their behavior towards the beta-testers - they like to get our feedback - but they do not give any feedback at all in return - on top of that, they completely ignore our prayers when it comes to IE8 updates that all other packages (XP, Vista) got in the meantime The public beta of Windows 7 is no different than any other public beta. During any beta, the communication is one-way by necessity. The Windows 7 developers are hard at work assimilatingthe tonsof data and building the product. The latest estimate is that over 3 million people have installed Windows 7 beta. Just imagine the resources it would take for Microsoft to respond, individually,to every question fromeach of these users? However, the value of the public beta testers is enormous and cannot be underestimated. The public betais valuablein the amount of telemetry, data, bug reports,and feedback that is sent back to the Windows 7 developers. This will help to guarantee that the final version is very solid.These forums and other resources are one way that Microsoft makes sure that public beta testers are heard and helped, as much as possible.You havea perfect opportunity coming up next Tuesday where you can submit any question directly to Microsoft and get an answer. The details are inthis thread. If your question cannot be answered in the time frame of the meeting, a public Q&A document will be available, soon after the meeting, where all questions that are submitted will be answered.There is also this thread, Have Comments about Windows 7 Beta?where the Forum Owner sends all of the posts in that threaddirectly to the Windows 7 developer teams.You also have the Engineering Windows 7blog where the actual Windows 7 executives and developers have written over 3 dozen articles covering the why and wherefore of the way Windows 7 is being designed. These articles are very transparent in the information that is presented. You can also comment on these articles.In addition, you also have the main website where Windows 7 documentation is available.Windows 7 Beta | Support, Deployment, Resources be sure to click on the Discover > Explorelink.The bottom line is that the communication is there.Sorry to be so long winded.Hope this helps.Thank You for testing Windows 7 Beta Ronnie Vernon MVP

Picsoe said: I think that a lot of people suffer from the IE8 problems in Win 7 beta 7000 :- MS should communicate at least SOMETHING about it- MS should at least tell us WHY WE CANNOT HAVE the IE8 RC version- MS should STOP IGNORING us and our problems- MS should STOP THEIR UNBEARALE ARROGANCY towards us, who are helping them to avoid for a second Vista disaster.Geeze.. Dude.. THINK things through before you go off on a tirade...1.) There are MILLIONS of people testing Windows 7 Beta 1. MILLIONS. 2.) I'm fairly certain that many of them are sending feedback to Microsoft. That means MILLIONS of feedbacks they have to sort through. If you got that many emails in a given day, I doubt you'd have time to answer each and every one.3.)If they stopped to answer ALL or even part of the vast flood of feedback, when would the programmers ever get around to finish programming Windows 7...? The sooner they get that done, the sooner we get RC 1. 4.) And speaking of RC 1, IE 8 RC 1 will likely be included in Windows 7 RC 1. Kinda obvious... No?

Ronnie Vernon said:Sorry to be so long winded.Uau! Ill print this later and read it on my 12 hours plain trip! Just kidding! Long but interesting answer.Adelino Araujo

And think about this...if they didn't include IE with windows 7, How Would You Download FireFox?? Hummmm?

Some people say MS should include a selection of browsers for the user to choose from when installing Windows. I don't agree - why should Microsoft bundle products it does not make into Windows, especially browsers. People complain that Windows is bloated enough (stupid people!), so it this not just making the situation worse??

Frye66 - Actually... That could be dealt with a few different ways.1.) FTP from a command line terminal...2.) A hard interface - kinda like the one they're using for Windows Update these days that'll download browser X or & or Z or IE for you.3.) Going down to the store and <gasp> actually buying a browser the old fashioned way...I kinda have a theory about that Opera whine in the EU... Opera used to be, like Netscape, a commercial browser. Their current income model - Google pays them a bundle to be the default search engine. Google is now putting out Chrome - Opera now feels threatened. They'd love to see #3 above come true - they'd then have a shot at aguaranteed income should Google cease their support.

Ronnie this is the reply I was just talking about. I have gone through almsot all the other I can find and you didn't Yellow line them . Whatever. Thanks anyway. chamblisstom@bellsouth.net

Hi Chamblisstom Sorry, I wasn't picking on you.That warning is one of the requirednotices that we add whenever a registry edit is recommended. We do miss some of these.Regards,Thank You for testing Windows 7 Beta Ronnie Vernon MVP

By the way Ronnie ,Microsoft sent me that cure reg edit this week and they didn't have a red warning. I still think you are doing a great job though. Have a great day chamblisstom@bellsouth.net

Wolfie2k6 said: Frye66 - Actually... That could be dealt with a few different ways.1.) FTP from a command line terminal...2.) A hard interface - kinda like the one they're using for Windows Update these days that'll download browser X or & or Z or IE for you.3.) Going down to the store and <gasp> actually buying a browser the old fashioned way...I kinda have a theory about that Opera whine in the EU... Opera used to be, like Netscape, a commercial browser. Their current income model - Google pays them a bundle to be the default search engine. Google is now putting out Chrome - Opera now feels threatened. They'd love to see #3 above come true - they'd then have a shot at aguaranteed income should Google cease their support.It would be nice if Windows 7 had no browser by default and had the ftp feature. OEMs would install whatever browser they wanted, and those doing a full format andinstall on their existing machine would be tech savvy enough to use the ftp. Unfortunatelythat won't happen. That'll actually educate users that they're wrong in thinking "da blue E on ma desktop (taskbar at this point)is da Internets". Then they might actually choose a different browser, Microsoft couldn't let that happen now could they?

Tron - 1.) FTP would suck rotten eggs. Wasn't the whole point of Windows to liberate people from having to go through the contortions of the command line?2.) OEM's would install? What about what the END USER wants? 3.) And no it won't educate anyone about any such thing. People are still going to go with IE - because they've been conditioned to think it's the "internet"... Why go with something you don't know when it's generally preferable to go with something that you DO know and is within your comfort level?4.) The whole issue with removing IE isn't so much about browser freedom as to how deeply it's blended into the rest of the OS - and how many apps would it break if you removed it all. Many apps and, for that matter, other parts of Windows itself use the same HTML rendering engine - the Help system, Windows Explorer, Outlook, Windows Live Mail/Outlook Express, etc... My email client even usesIE's HTML engine to display email. The dependencies of OTHER apps needs to be also taken into account.