Why are we in the UK being penalised regarding the pre order offer for Windows 7
In the US the Home Premium edition is being offered at $49.99, in the UK it is 49.99. The currency converter in Expedia gives $49.99 as being equivalent to 30.44. Why the difference? Especially as it can be obtained as a download from the US Microsoft store (but only to a US address). Further more in the UK it is being made available as something called an E edition which does not contain an internet browser yet we are being asked to pay more. When you have 3 computers, as I do, it makes a big difference.
July 5th, 2009 12:16am

You're also getting an OEM or Retail licence rather than an Upgrade license.
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July 5th, 2009 1:28am

We may be getting that at the cost of no browser included and no way of being able to do an upgrade on an existing O/S. Do you think that justifies a 60% markup in price ? EDIT: Maybe I should mention that I have a Vista HP retail license and I feel that, as usual, the UK is being ripped off again. $1 does not equal 1 Windows 7 x64 RC, Asrock K8NF6P, AMD64 3200+, 1.5GB RAM, Palit Geforce 8400GS 256MB, 500GB Maxtor SataII, Asus 1814BLT optical
July 5th, 2009 2:19am

In the US the Home Premium edition is being offered at $49.99, in the UK it is 49.99. The currency converter in Expedia gives $49.99 as being equivalent to 30.44. Why the difference? Especially as it can be obtained as a download from the US Microsoft store (but only to a US address). Further more in the UK it is being made available as something called an E edition which does not contain an internet browser yet we are being asked to pay more. When you have 3 computers, as I do, it makes a big difference. welshshrew - Consider yourself lucky to be getting a full license for that price... Some parts of the world (Australia, for example) get bupkus, nada, zip. They get to pay full price.
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July 5th, 2009 8:00am

If to U.S. is paying 30.44 and welshshrew has to pay 49.99 that's not fair so and I would consider myself mistreatedwhile other poorer countries aretreated even worse since they have to pay full price. Proud to be an American.
July 5th, 2009 5:06pm

If to U.S. is paying 30.44 and welshshrew has to pay 49.99 that's not fair so and I would consider myself mistreatedwhile other poorer countries aretreated even worse since they have to pay full price. Proud to be an American.
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July 5th, 2009 5:06pm

MR - Er.. But the edition I would pay for in the US is an UPGRADE license. The one in the EU is a FULL license. You know, one you can install on bare hard drives without any drama... Show me where you can find a FULL retail license of Windows 7 for $81.50... Not an upgrade, mind you, a FULL version.
July 6th, 2009 1:13am

You're missing the point here Wolfie. For some reason Microsoft will not allow us in the EU to purchase an upgrade version. Surely it can't be that hard for an upgrade to remove internet explorer which would keep the bigwigs^ happy. ^I have other words but using them here would lead to at least the post being removed Windows 7 x64 RC, Asrock K8NF6P, AMD64 3200+, 1.5GB RAM, Palit Geforce 8400GS 256MB, 500GB Maxtor SataII, Asus 1814BLT optical
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July 6th, 2009 1:25am

Currently upgrading simply don't work with Windows 7 E, or that's the official excuse, at least. What's there to complain about though? You get a retail license for 50% off with another 50% off with promotional pricing. Note that retail Windows does do upgrade, you'll simply be locked out of that capability.
July 6th, 2009 1:29am

Well had I known the U.K.was getting a full license I'd say they have a good deal.The only thing is an upgrade licence can be transfered to other computers not an OEM which is not technically meant to be sold in stores. This was true for XP but I'm not sure about 7.
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July 6th, 2009 1:34am

Well had I known the U.K.was getting a full license I'd say they have a good deal.The only thing is an upgrade licence can be transfered to other computers not an OEM which is not technically meant to be sold in stores. This was true for XP but I'm not sure about 7.
July 6th, 2009 1:34am

Who can give me the link for the pre-order being offered to the U.K.?
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July 6th, 2009 1:38am

Who can give me the link for the pre-order being offered to the U.K.?
July 6th, 2009 1:38am

Here we go bud, starts 15th July through 9th August http://www.microsoft.com/uk/windows/buy/offers/pre-order.aspxWindows 7 x64 RC, Asrock K8NF6P, AMD64 3200+, 1.5GB RAM, Palit Geforce 8400GS 256MB, 500GB Maxtor SataII, Asus 1814BLT optical
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July 6th, 2009 1:39am

You're missing the point here Wolfie.For some reason Microsoft will not allow us in the EU to purchase an upgrade version.Surely it can't be that hard for an upgrade to remove internet explorer which would keep the bigwigs^ happy.^I have other words but using them here would lead to at least the post being removed Windows 7 x64 RC, Asrock K8NF6P, AMD64 3200+, 1.5GB RAM, Palit Geforce 8400GS 256MB, 500GB Maxtor SataII, Asus 1814BLT optical Brown - The key word is "removal"... It's like trying to go from say, Windows 7 Ultimate to Home Premium. Microsoft has no means to "downgrade" a license. I think the cruz of the problem lies here:You've got Vista Home Premium SP 2 installed with IE 8. You want to upgrade to Win 7 Home Premium E. There's no doubt, a TON of stuff in the registry dealing with IE 8 from SP2. There's the stock stuff and then there's the potential for having add-ons installed as well. Stuff like that is generally written by 3rd parties. There would be an AWFUL lot of left over kludge stuck in the registry. Stuff pointing to Flash, Acrobat, IE Spell, etc..., etc... et al. Ad nauseum. Suddenly, Microsoft needs to be in the registry cleaner business just to install an upgrade and remove all the dead crud... I just don't see them going there.
July 6th, 2009 2:02am

Hmmm, there already is an option to remove internet explorer.Windows 7 x64 RC, Asrock K8NF6P, AMD64 3200+, 1.5GB RAM, Palit Geforce 8400GS 256MB, 500GB Maxtor SataII, Asus 1814BLT optical
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July 6th, 2009 2:07am

The removal tool within Windows and the E editions are two entirely separate things. Notice how the removal tool allows you toremove something and later re-install it. This is because thetool doesn'tdelete anything, itcompresses the files and stores them elsewhere.The E editions have IE stripped out entirely.
July 6th, 2009 2:11am

Are they ? Has IE been stripped out completely ? We won't know until it's actually tried. How many components of IE will still be in the Windows 7 E editions ? Again, we won't know. This is going to be fun when Windows 7 goes RTM and we in the UK suddenly become beta testers again when we have paid for RTM software. Windows 7 x64 RC, Asrock K8NF6P, AMD64 3200+, 1.5GB RAM, Palit Geforce 8400GS 256MB, 500GB Maxtor SataII, Asus 1814BLT optical
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July 6th, 2009 2:37am

Brown - Actually... We DO kinda know. The HTML rendering components won't be stripped out. That would break just WAAAY too many things. Older versions of Office, 3rd party apps, the help subsystem, etc... Beyond that, can't think of any other components that would still be available.
July 6th, 2009 3:28am

Wolfie, how DO you kinda know ? As far as I am aware there have been no betas/RCs of Windows 7 that do not include IE which effectively puts us back to beta. As you pointed out, there are a lot of applications dependent on the IE core engine and it will be interesting to see what happens when I install the 'E' edition in a few months time. Windows 7 x64 RC, Asrock K8NF6P, AMD64 3200+, 1.5GB RAM, Palit Geforce 8400GS 256MB, 500GB Maxtor SataII, Asus 1814BLT optical
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July 6th, 2009 4:31am

Hmmm, there already is an option to remove internet explorer. HiWhen you remove any component in the'Turn Windows Features on or off' component,it effectively makes that component inaccessible from the UI.In reality what it does is delete the Hard Links to the actual programs fileswhich are still presentin the Component Store (WinSxS).The 'E' versions will no longer contain any files associated with the IE browser in the component store. Wolfie is also correct, all of the associated registry entries that are installed by default when the OS is installed will also not be present.From your other posts, you are correct, it is going to be very interesting to see the results.Hope this helps.Thank You for testing Windows 7 Ronnie Vernon MVP
July 6th, 2009 8:00am

We may be getting that at the cost of no browser included and no way of being able to do an upgrade on an existing O/S.Do you think that justifies a 60% markup in price ?EDIT: Maybe I should mention that I have a Vista HP retail license and I feel that, as usual, the UK is being ripped off again.$1 does not equal 1 HiI know that everyone focuses on the currency exchange rate, but what about things like the VAT and other fees that companies pay when they import products? I don't know how that works in the UK? Is the VAT and other fees added to the retail price or does this get added at the time of sale?I do know that in the US, when I placed an order for the Upgrade, after adding the Sales Tax and the express shipping, I paid a bit over 72 USD for each Upgrade copy. This amounts to almost 50% above the posted price of 49.99 USD.Thank You for testing Windows 7 Ronnie Vernon MVP
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July 6th, 2009 8:10am

Stop letting the EU do whatever they want!Vote for Freedom - Vote to Protect our Country
July 6th, 2009 8:12am

No browser is not such a disadvantage becouse often times if files are damaged or hijacked an easy way to repair is to reinstallthe app such as IE8 rather than the entire os system.
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July 6th, 2009 8:22am

No browser is not such a disadvantage becouse often times if files are damaged or hijacked an easy way to repair is to reinstallthe app such as IE8 rather than the entire os system.
July 6th, 2009 8:22am

Here we go bud, starts 15th July through 9th Augusthttp://www.microsoft.com/uk/windows/buy/offers/pre-order.aspx Windows 7 x64 RC, Asrock K8NF6P, AMD64 3200+, 1.5GB RAM, Palit Geforce 8400GS 256MB, 500GB Maxtor SataII, Asus 1814BLT optical Thank you for the link. I wanted to be sure what type of license was being offered to England, it really did not specify.
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July 6th, 2009 8:33am

Here we go bud, starts 15th July through 9th Augusthttp://www.microsoft.com/uk/windows/buy/offers/pre-order.aspx Windows 7 x64 RC, Asrock K8NF6P, AMD64 3200+, 1.5GB RAM, Palit Geforce 8400GS 256MB, 500GB Maxtor SataII, Asus 1814BLT optical Thank you for the link. I wanted to be sure what type of license was being offered to England, it really did not specify.
July 6th, 2009 8:33am

MR - According to Ed Bott @ ZDNet, it's a full retail license.And I quote:"The good news is youll get a better price than your counterparts in other markets. Youll be able to buy a fully licensed retail copy of Windows 7E (Microsofts customized version, with Internet Explorer 8 stripped out to mollify the European Commission antitrust regulators) for the price you would normally pay for an upgrade edition." (emphasis mine)
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July 6th, 2009 10:22am

I do know that in the US, when I placed an order for the Upgrade, after adding the Sales Tax and the express shipping, I paid a bit over 72 USD for each Upgrade copy. This amounts to almost 50% above the posted price of 49.99 USD. As far as I am aware it is only certain states that charge sales tax & obviously the express shipping charge is a personal decision ! According to Ed Bott @ ZDNet, it's a full retail license . Maybe so but I don't have a choice which is extremely annoying as I already own a retail Vista license. I wonder how much that will fetch on Ebay when Windows 7 is on the market ? Windows 7 x64 RC, Asrock K8NF6P, AMD64 3200+, 1.5GB RAM, Palit Geforce 8400GS 256MB, 500GB Maxtor SataII, Asus 1814BLT optical
July 6th, 2009 11:37am

Brown - Full Vista home premium? Let's see.. I see a bunch of themfor $115 USD... Or about 71.26 pounds - give or take depending on exchange rates...I see one that comes with the Win 7 upgrade for $139... Or about 86 pounds...
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July 6th, 2009 12:22pm

It cost a lot more than that when I bought it.Windows 7 x64 RC, Asrock K8NF6P, AMD64 3200+, 1.5GB RAM, Palit Geforce 8400GS 256MB, 500GB Maxtor SataII, Asus 1814BLT optical
July 6th, 2009 12:40pm

Wolfie, how DO you kinda know ?As far as I am aware there have been no betas/RCs of Windows 7 that do not include IE which effectively puts us back to beta.As you pointed out, there are a lot of applications dependent on the IE core engine and it will be interesting to see what happens when I install the 'E' edition in a few months time. Windows 7 x64 RC, Asrock K8NF6P, AMD64 3200+, 1.5GB RAM, Palit Geforce 8400GS 256MB, 500GB Maxtor SataII, Asus 1814BLT optical Brown - Elementary, my dear Watson... Because if they did remove the HTML rendering engine, there would be heck to pay and I can see the guys with pitchforks, tar and feathers lining up outside of One Redmond Way if that were to happen. It's a published API and a LOT of apps - many of them are even Microsoft apps (older versions of Office (2000 to 2003)... Seems 2007 or 2010 uses a different rendering engine that's not 100% compatible. Apps like FrontRange GoldMine use it to render HTML email and other tasks. I'm sure there are other apps built on the same API as well.
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July 6th, 2009 12:42pm

It cost a lot more than that when I bought it. Windows 7 x64 RC, Asrock K8NF6P, AMD64 3200+, 1.5GB RAM, Palit Geforce 8400GS 256MB, 500GB Maxtor SataII, Asus 1814BLT optical Brown - Ok.. And how much actual use did you get out of it?
July 6th, 2009 12:44pm

Wolfie, how DO you kinda know ? As far as I am aware there have been no betas/RCs of Windows 7 that do not include IE which effectively puts us back to beta. As you pointed out, there are a lot of applications dependent on the IE core engine and it will be interesting to see what happens when I install the 'E' edition in a few months time. Windows 7 x64 RC, Asrock K8NF6P, AMD64 3200+, 1.5GB RAM, Palit Geforce 8400GS 256MB, 500GB Maxtor SataII, Asus 1814BLT optical Brown - Elementary, my dear Watson... Because if they did remove the HTML rendering engine, there would be heck to pay and I can see the guys with pitchforks, tar and feathers lining up outside of One Redmond Way if that were to happen. It's a published API and a LOT of apps - many of them are even Microsoft apps (older versions of Office (2000 to 2003)... Seems 2007 or 2010 uses a different rendering engine that's not 100% compatible. Apps like FrontRange GoldMine use it to render HTML email and other tasks. I'm sure there are other apps built on the same API as well. I don't think they will be outside Redmond Way, more like outside Microsoft Campus in Reading ! As I said, it will be interesting to see what will and won't work with the 'E' edition.Windows 7 x64 RC, Asrock K8NF6P, AMD64 3200+, 1.5GB RAM, Palit Geforce 8400GS 256MB, 500GB Maxtor SataII, Asus 1814BLT optical
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July 6th, 2009 12:50pm

Only about a year and a lot of that time was dual booting with XP.Windows 7 x64 RC, Asrock K8NF6P, AMD64 3200+, 1.5GB RAM, Palit Geforce 8400GS 256MB, 500GB Maxtor SataII, Asus 1814BLT optical
July 6th, 2009 12:52pm

I think I wouldn't post here as i'm not UK or US and don'thave money to payfor MS.But i had a idea:The OS is built from :-Kernel(Core). (like Brain :D)-MS already installed App(important) for basic work: notepad,paint,calc..;(not costfew dollars)-Dowload/Buy app like Office, Wmp,Games...why not put ie8 to the list. (cost the $)The setup prg of win7 then gave us a list to check what we want to include in the window >install> then we must buy a license according to what we selected in order to activate win7.
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July 6th, 2009 1:08pm

joturako - Honestly... I think that's what the Opera people would LOVE to see. That would justify them charging for their browser again. You see, here's the thing. Many years ago, Opera WAS a paid for browser. You could buy it like you could buy Netscape. And it was good. But then IE came along and spoiled that. Opera went from a browser you could buy to one that was ad supported. Then Google came along and rescued them by paying Opera to use Google as the default search engine.But now Google's coming out with their own browser. I can see the guys in Norway getting a bit nervous. As well as the folks making Firefox. Could this be the end of their gravy train? That's hard to tell. If Chrome gets enough traction, then it could mean curtains for the subsidy.So that, I believe is why they forced Microsoft's hand. If Microsoft is forced to start charging for the browser, they would be free to do so as well.
July 6th, 2009 2:32pm

According to this article, "people in the EU who purchase Windows 7 will get only the Full version, and not the Upgrade version, but they will acquire this product at the Upgrade prices. The reason is simple: Microsoft has yet to figure out a way to upgrade a copy of Windows Vista with IE 7 or 8 installed to a copy of Windows 7 in which IE cannot exist. They say they expect to have a solution by the end of the year."Carey Frisch
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July 6th, 2009 4:47pm

I do know that in the US, when I placed an order for the Upgrade, after adding the Sales Tax and the express shipping, I paid a bit over 72 USD for each Upgrade copy. This amounts to almost 50% above the posted price of 49.99 USD. As far as I am aware it is only certain states that charge sales tax & obviously the express shipping charge is a personal decision ! Hi BrowniThat's correct, but I am just curious about the VAT and other fees that may be paid 'up front' when you import a product into the UK? This could account for some of the difference in price, if thismust bepaid by the importer when the product enters the country. Do you know if the VAT is added to the price prior to the consumer getting the product or is it added when the consumer makes the purchase?Thanks for any information.Thank You for testing Windows 7 Ronnie Vernon MVP
July 6th, 2009 7:11pm

InThe Netherlandswe are not allowed the upgrade directly from Microsoft website"i think it has to do with EU rules....market protector they have tons of Vista licenses that they want to get ridoff quickly before Oct.As a solution i had to buy Windows vista home premium 64 bit EN including the free upgradevoucher of windows 7 for euro 109,- (USD152,-)And i know for sure that they will send me the Win 7 home perimum upgrade, but is it possible toask for the peofessional upgrade instead?ThanksIt's all about Windows.
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July 6th, 2009 9:52pm

I will not take credit for this gem of wisdom, somebody else mentioned it long ago in this forum: It shouldn't be too difficult to use the 20 year old FTP program supplied with Windows to download a browser. Especially easy if a simple script or .bat is provided. Of course, retailers might also supply something like that on CD/DVD (or even complete browsers on the discs). Where can you not go and find introductory offer AOL discs?I still protest that Europeans get better online tobacco deals than Americans. Even if that gets me deleted here. Again. egads - The only problem is - AOL cds will be even more useless given their browser is nothing more than a skin for IE.
July 6th, 2009 10:18pm

egads - Oh.. I don't know.. I've been known to use them as coasters under my drinks... The point was - AOL isn't very useful in this day and age given you can do pretty much everything AOL does without having the overhead of the stupid AOL shell installed. Of course, that does mean having a browser. And since you can't install IE 8 from it, they're even less useful than normal. "It's a joke, son..." - Foghorn Leghorn
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July 6th, 2009 11:00pm

According to this article, "people in the EU who purchase Windows 7 will get only the Full version, and not the Upgrade version, but they will acquire this product at the Upgrade prices. The reason is simple: Microsoft has yet to figure out a way to upgrade a copy of Windows Vista with IE 7 or 8 installed to a copy of Windows 7 in which IE cannot exist. They say they expect to have a solution by the end of the year." Carey Frisch I really really hope this statement is wrong. If the Euro version creates an evnironment where "IE cannot exist" it will become virtually unsaleable in the UK. At a rough guess I would say over 90% of computers sold in the UK are used primarily for browsing the web or drivng web based applications. This means a browser (whoever supplies it) is an essential part of the system. Not only that, a substantial number of web based applications use what amounts to IE specific coding (ActiveX etc) that isn't quite fully supported in other broswers yet. Add to that most people in the UK know how to drive IE and it becomes clear that Windows without IE is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard. Microsoft must make sure IE can be bolted into Windows 7 even if they cannot supply it with it, and they must make it available as a free download. All the other browsers are free downloads and somehow I can't see all of them suddenly starting to charge if Microsoft starts charging for IE. What I really want to see in Windows 7 is a stripped down browser that only allows the user to search for a full broswer to download and nothing more. That way at least the user can decide what browser to use and get it installed easily.What I don't understand is why Microsoft did not follow the same path as Linux and simply put as many browsers on the source media as they could and give the user the option of which to install? How hard would it have been to put Firefox, Opera, IE and any other Windows based browser on the DVD and let the user decide which to pick? Or, if disk space was an issue, why not put in a download routine that could download the browser of the users choice? Seems like the simplest solution to me.
July 7th, 2009 1:02am

I really really hope this statement is wrong. If the Euro version creates an evnironment where "IE cannot exist" it will become virtually unsaleable in the UK. At a rough guess I would say over 90% of computers sold in the UK are used primarily for browsing the web or drivng web based applications. This means a browser (whoever supplies it) is an essential part of the system. Not only that, a substantial number of web based applications use what amounts to IE specific coding (ActiveX etc) that isn't quite fully supported in other broswers yet. Add to that most people in the UK know how to drive IE and it becomes clear that Windows without IE is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard. Microsoft must make sure IE can be bolted into Windows 7 even if they cannot supply it with it, and they must make it available as a free download. All the other browsers are free downloads and somehow I can't see all of them suddenly starting to charge if Microsoft starts charging for IE. What I really want to see in Windows 7 is a stripped down browser that only allows the user to search for a full broswer to download and nothing more. That way at least the user can decide what browser to use and get it installed easily.What I don't understand is why Microsoft did not follow the same path as Linux and simply put as many browsers on the source media as they could and give the user the option of which to install? How hard would it have been to put Firefox, Opera, IE and any other Windows based browser on the DVD and let the user decide which to pick? Or, if disk space was an issue, why not put in a download routine that could download the browser of the users choice? Seems like the simplest solution to me. Mark - I think you might be missing something. From everything I've read on Windows 7E - It's not that IE can NOT exist - it's that it isn't being shipped with the rest of Windows 7. It's going to be made available asa stand alone browser. Think of it like Windows Live Essentials - you know, Windows Live Mail, Live Photo Gallery, Live Messenger, and the other goodies formerly bundled with previous versions of Windows.As far as Microsoft bundling every browser under the sun with Windows... That won't work. Microsoft isn't about to take responsibility for everybody else's code. It's not about it being hard to doit - it's about setting a very bad precedent. If the browser people get their way and Microsoft has to include Opera, Chrome, Firefox, Safari and who knows what else on there, then what's to stop the media player people (Real Player, Apple iTunes, etc..) demanding equal access? Or for that matter, ANY other utility or app demanding their slice of the pie? Going that route, I can see Windows 8's VERY dark future - Windows 8 will have to be distributed on a 50 GB BluRay DVD. Mind you, the geniuses at Microsoft managed to get the ISO for Win 8 down to 2 GB (down from 3.5) but the rest of the disc is consumed by everybody else's wares including OpenOffice and WordPerfect Office. Where does it stop?
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July 7th, 2009 1:56am

With some of the things floating around at the moment, sometimesits hard to know what's truth and what's rumour. I'm glad to see that this time the rumours are wrong. However, it does not get around the biggest drawback of having zero browser capability in in Windows 7. Here's the scenario. A novice goes out and buys a new PC preloaded with Windows 7 and gets it home, sets it up and wants to start browsing the web. No problem, he just needs to download a browser. But, there's a catch. He can't get onto the web to download anything without a browser. Queue call 1 to tech support! If he is lucky, the PC vendor might have included a disc with a browser on it, but you can bet the choice of browser will have nothing to do with ease of use, included features, compatibility or anything like that, it will be down to what the vendor gets paid to send it out with the PC (and I expect Microsoft are prohibited from handing out discs via vendors even if they don't pay the vendor to hand them out). So, Mr novice user gets a browser that is completely unsuitable and finds it really difficult to use the PC, then finds his friend has just installed this really strange package that begins with a U, seems dead easy to use for getting on the web and doing email (as its all included as standard and aimed at the novice) and decides Windows is rubbish and never wants to see it again.Whilst I agree in principle that no software company should have a monopoly I also believe in everyonegetting a fair chance At the moment it looks like the EU has deliberately stacked the deck against Microsoft and in favour of the various flavours of Linux (many of which originate in the EU). Surely if Microsoft have been forced to dropthe browser and mail client from Windows 7 shouldn't all the Linux distros be made to do the same?Going slightly off at a tangent, does anyone know if the XP mode virtual machine (for Win7 Business)is going to be freely available in the EU? This currently includes out of the box IE6 and Outlook Express. Or has the EU blocked this (or the IE/OE part of it) as well?
July 7th, 2009 2:36am

Hi Ronnie, I'm not sure about importing items into the UK, hopefully somebody else will have more knowledge on that. Regarding VAT, if I walk in to a shop in the UK and want to purchase something price marked at 50. That is what I pay, the VAT is included. The state sales tax is something which doesn't exist over here (yet!) although we have VAT which is currently 15%Windows 7 x64 RC, Asrock K8NF6P, AMD64 3200+, 1.5GB RAM, Palit Geforce 8400GS 256MB, 500GB Maxtor SataII, Asus 1814BLT optical
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July 7th, 2009 3:08am

The EU is penalising you since they regulate business like cold war Russia. So who set the prices then ? EU or MS \?Windows 7 x64 RC, Asrock K8NF6P, AMD64 3200+, 1.5GB RAM, Palit Geforce 8400GS 256MB, 500GB Maxtor SataII, Asus 1814BLT optical
July 7th, 2009 3:18am

Mark - I hear you... People read stuff and may not understand it 100% or they didn't read the whole article and missed the key point. HATE when that happens.In your scenario, if hegets an OEM box, he's likely to get a bonus disc from his OEM supplier - one that has installers for IE 8and the usual litany of suspects - Firefox, Opera, Safari, etc... so the new PC owner can install whatever browser floats his boat. The thing is - the vendor will likely be PAID to compile and maintain such disks - by the browser companies who want their browser featured on the disk - just like all the other crapware and trialware now found on most OEM systems. Either that or things will degenerate into a scenario where you have to actually BUY a copy of Opera, Firefox or whatever browser you want. As far as Linux goes - I doubt there'd be a serious need to put any sort of limitation on them. Not so much to make things fair - but because no one really cares. Linux has a rather small market share and I don't necessarily see it growing anytime soon. Nor would they impose any such rules on OSX - even though that comes bundled with Safari.. It's market share is substantially higher than Linux - but unless someone submits a whine to the EC, nothing will happen. And I don't see anyone whining.Now then... You didask a fairly good question. XP Mode, from what I've seen, must be downloaded from the Internet. And to do that, you have to go to the web site in order to do that. So you have to have a browser installed... Back to the chicken/egg conundrum.
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July 7th, 2009 3:22am

The EU are xxxxxxxxxx. midnight ramblerI edited your message for content and removed a few more of your messages for being completely off topic. It's OK to have a discussion about any Windows 7 subject you wish on these forums as long as everyone follows the published Community Code of Conduct and Terms Of UseI am referring to these sections, in particular: Respect Others We encourage everyone to treat each other with mutual respect. Do not use any communication or collaboration services to threaten, harass, stalk, or abuse others participating in these services. Microsoft reserves the right to remove posts that advocate or encourage expressions of violence, bigotry, racism, hatred, or profanity. Microsoft may remove postings that are deemed inappropriate, offensive or that violate guidelines or this Code of Conduct. Microsoft may also, at its sole discretion, eject or ban any user from their area who behaves in a manner deemed inappropriate, offensive or who violates guidelines or this Code of Conduct. By participating in a collaborative service, you agree to be bound to the rules of that area. Be Nice Microsoft does not tolerate disruptive activity online, such as persistent off-topic comments and postings or statements that incite others to violate this Code of Conduct or participate in illegal activities. Our participants want to chat and post on our collaborative services in a positive environment. Microsoft reserves the right to ban a user at any time for not being nice. Ronnie Vernon MVPForum Moderator
July 7th, 2009 3:38am

I've already got the egg as I've downloaded it and have it tucked safely away ready for future use.One other question. One of the companies I deal with writes a piece of software that is dependant on IEto operate. They are Microsoft certified or registered (not sure of the correct term). Do you think they would be allowed to bundle IE8 with their software? They already bundle MS SQL Studio Express with their software and they should have room on the DVD for IE8 assuming they are allowed to include it.
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July 7th, 2009 3:47am

Hi Ronnie,I'm not sure about importing items into the UK, hopefully somebody else will have more knowledge on that.Regarding VAT, if I walk in to a shop in the UK and want to purchase something price marked at 50. That is what I pay, the VAT is included. The state sales tax is something which doesn't exist over here (yet!) although we have VAT which is currently 15% Windows 7 x64 RC, Asrock K8NF6P, AMD64 3200+, 1.5GB RAM, Palit Geforce 8400GS 256MB, 500GB Maxtor SataII, Asus 1814BLT optical Hi BrowniThanks, that does help.Regards,Thank You for testing Windows 7 Ronnie Vernon MVP
July 7th, 2009 3:48am

I've already got the egg as I've downloaded it and have it tucked safely away ready for future use.One other question. One of the companies I deal with writes a piece of software that is dependant on IEto operate. They are Microsoft certified or registered (not sure of the correct term). Do you think they would be allowed to bundle IE8 with their software? They already bundle MS SQL Studio Express with their software and they should have room on the DVD for IE8 assuming they are allowed to include it. Mark - Good plan...As far as the company in question goes... That would largely depend on the EULA for IE 8 for Windows 7... But I don't see why not. It wouldn't be the first time IE distribution files were included on some other program's install media.. In fact, IE 3.01 came with Office 97 WAY back in the day.
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July 7th, 2009 3:53am

We may put IE8 into "Ultimate Extras" or smt else. Sell everything apart and let the user choose (bet they will choose from MS) what they want. Now we'll put an even bigger seperator on MS app designer |||vs||| MS OS designer.
July 8th, 2009 10:46am

An internet browser is a computer program not a subscriotion service or search provider. Other perograms are calculator or on-screen keyboard. Other software companies makel on-screean keyboards and calculators offered as freeware. Will it be mandated that microsoft include these programs out of fairness to these companies or is there something about browsers I am unaware of?
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July 8th, 2009 2:44pm

An internet browser is a computer program not a subscriotion service or search provider. Other perograms are calculator or on-screen keyboard. Other software companies makel on-screean keyboards and calculators offered as freeware. Will it be mandated that microsoft include these programs out of fairness to these companies or is there something about browsers I am unaware of?
July 8th, 2009 2:44pm

Sure, there is "something about browsers" you are very well aware of. Why do you think Google announces today an entirely web-oriented OS for 2010? Why don't they throw a new calculator on the market? If anyone remembers: Back in the days when Netscape ruled, MS was mocked as a dinosaur because they didn't get out an own browser in time. They didn't notice the rise of the net: OMG!Now IE has its market share, and MS must remove the browser that everyone claimed for in the past.When anything,that's a proof thata browser is more than just an accessory.Mobile AMD64 3000+, VIA Apollo K8T800 chipset, 1 G RAM, ATIRadeonMobility 9700, 20x DVDRW, C:XPSP3 (55G),D:WIN7 (25G),F:DATA (250G)
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July 8th, 2009 3:14pm

Sanmartin I fail to see your point whenthe government and courts are telling what computer programs companies must include with there own.
July 8th, 2009 3:18pm

Sanmartin I fail to see your point whenthe government and courts are telling what computer programs companies must include with there own.
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July 8th, 2009 3:18pm

An internet browser is a computer program not a subscriotion service or search provider. Other perograms are calculator or on-screen keyboard. Other software companies makel on-screean keyboards and calculators offered as freeware. Will it be mandated that microsoft include these programs out of fairness to these companies or is there something about browsers I am unaware of? MR - Why... OF course! It's only the FAIR thing to do! Why should anyone have to download anything? Heck.. Look at what Linux does - after all, it's THE superior OS... By golly! And while we're at it, we'll make Microsoft throw in media players and everything but the kitchen sink... Oh what the heck - let's throw that in as well. Never mind that it now bloats the distribution disk to close to 50 GB - we've now got BluRay disks! Make 'em put the whole shebang on that! What was once a 15 minute install with Windows 7 will now take allday with Windows 8 - because you have to navigate the mine field of doom better known as the feature selection matrix. First, you select which browser you want, then the calculator, media player, archiving utility, word processor, notepad applet, etc... et al, ad nauseum.../ sarcasm...But seriously... I can see stuff like this coming. Once one app (browsers) make it onto the Windows distribution disk - ALL bets are off as to where the insanity ends.
July 8th, 2009 4:14pm

Sanmartin I fail to see your point whenthe government and courts are telling what computer programs companies must include with there own. MR - But...But...But... Microsoft is a monopoly...! And we all know that monopolies (except the Milton Bradley game) are EVIL! They MUST be PUNISHED! They're not fair! They MUST have done something truly evil - like signed a deal with Satan himself (in blood no less!) to get that much market share! How dare they be successful while the other guy with his poor products suffers extinction?!?!/ sarcasmThe previous rant is typical of the ABM (Anything But Microsoft) way of thinking. There's also a question of politics. While Norway isn't a member of the EU, they're still part of Europe and they can't exactly sit by and let the mean ol' American company run by those meanies put one of their own out of business... The fact that people actually LIKE Microsoft software is irrelevant.
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July 8th, 2009 4:27pm

MR, my point was: The internet of today is a big money-making machine, search engines are cash cows (Google is the best example), and browsers are a part of the game. It's not by accident that Google pays other browser manufacturers to use their product as the default for web searches. Regarding this, I can understand why antitrust regulators keep an eye just on that particular piece of "computer programs". I don't agree with their measures but I understand that the issue they want to control (as fruitless that attempt may be) is more important than in-built vs. 3d party "on-screen keyboards". Who cares about that?Mobile AMD64 3000+, VIA Apollo K8T800 chipset, 1 G RAM, ATIRadeonMobility 9700, 20x DVDRW, C:XPSP3 (55G),D:WIN7 (25G),F:DATA (250G)
July 8th, 2009 4:32pm

Sorry I took so long, my system crashed and I had to upgrade my upgrade.A web browser to me is a simple program that displays web pages after entering a URL. It seems to me the trend is that Microsoft may now be thetargetof a hostile takeover spawned by Google who is using the premise of the search engine. If links to other search providers were supplied with Microsofts simple web browser maybe this could have bean averted although it still would be infringment and for the future, I'd expect to see the most basic system with fewer applications which could be a blessing when engineering of an operating system is focused on the system not so much as the extra applications.
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July 8th, 2009 5:05pm

Sorry I took so long, my system crashed and I had to upgrade my upgrade.A web browser to me is a simple program that displays web pages after entering a URL. It seems to me the trend is that Microsoft may now be thetargetof a hostile takeover spawned by Google who is using the premise of the search engine. If links to other search providers were supplied with Microsofts simple web browser maybe this could have bean averted although it still would be infringment and for the future, I'd expect to see the most basic system with fewer applications which could be a blessing when engineering of an operating system is focused on the system not so much as the extra applications.
July 8th, 2009 5:05pm

that is helpful. where is the third location?
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May 28th, 2011 7:10am

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