I have a small home wired LAN based network with all machines running Vista Ultimate SP1 and set up as a work group. From a command prompt while running Vista I can access all my network shares. The problem arises when I boot to the WinPEcommand prompt from a DVD or a command prompt in the Win RE environment from the intallation media. I can't see any of the network resources using a UNC address even to do a simple DIR command (I did run startnet to start network services and I can ping the other machines). The request always returns 'Access Denied' which looks like an NTFS security issue. I have tried nurmerous security and Share settings on the shares but with no result. Any adice would be very welcome. Regards Stephen Morton

Hi, Please try using the following command to access the share folder: net use z: \\IPAddressofTargetMachine\ShareFolder /user:AdministratorofTargetMachine Password

Hi Steve, Joson and all other forum members. Steve's question originated from a thread called 'Vista Windows Recovery Environment and network shares' in a Windows deployment forum. The problem raised by Steve has been widely discussed without being concisely resolved. Steve maintains (and so do I) that although Vista Business Backup and Restore Center cannot be helpfulin backing up to a network location, we should be able to carry out the procedure by using the underlying DOS wbadmin command which works with UNC paths (while Backup and Restore Center doesn't). This is where the moderator of that other forum decided to close down the discussion and referred to this forum. Steve wrote: >> I can certainly backup backup to a network share using: >> wbadmin start backup -backuptarget:\\dlink\volume_1 -allcritical >> - where in this case the backuptarget is a NAS unit. >> The iamge is certainly built on the NAS and if I transfer it to a PC >> I want torebuild I can recover the PC. >> I canalso use the command: >> wbadmin get versions -backuptarget:\\dlink\volume_1 - to locate >> the correct backup version 'as long as I am still usingthe vista command prompt'. >> The problem arises when I boot to the WinRE recovery environment (or WinPE) >> command prompt, I can't see any of the network resources using a UNC address >> even to do a simple DIR command (I did run startnet to start network services and >> I can ping the other machines). Joson, your clever advice resolves Steve's most trivial problem, provided that he has been able a) to load tcp/ip drivers during the boot up of the recovery environment of windows; b) to start up the network; and c) to configure the ip, mask and gateway for the NIC. So what I would like to do, is to use wbadmin to restore the workstation disk image from the UNC address. I cannot, however, in the first place load the network drivers in the recovery environment, not to speak of configuring the workstation's tcp/ip functionality and pinging the NAS. Sorry, if theseare trivial questionsfor a network specialist, but they aren't all that simple for someone who is performing a backup recovery procedure. I would be grateful forthe help needed to arrive at the target. Thanks ph PS On a) and b): WinRE has this command called startnet.cmd which again seems to run some script which references wpeinit, but for methis is much too unclear to rely on.The commandseems to load the plug and play network driver, but I'm not all that sure if the driver will be available on the recovery disk when my regular disk really needs some repair. As to c): When the network driver is installed I'm able to configure the NIC by using netsh which has the following syntax: netsh interface ipv4 set address name="<ID>" source=static address=<StaticIP> mask=<SubnetMask> gateway=<DefaultGateway>

Given the info from Joson (thanks!) I have now managed to recover a machine from a share on the network. Not from the NAS yet (I'm still working on that) but at least from another Vista PC on the network this may not be the slickest way to do it but at least it proves the ability to do Complete PC Backup and Restores over the network using the wbadmin command line tool. It went like this. For the purpose of clarifying syntax assume the target share is called 'Here' on the machine 'Server1-PC' who'sIP address is 192.168.1.82 Backup to a network share Open an elevated (run as adminstrator) command prompt from within Vista and enterthe following command line 'wbadmin start backup -backuptarget:\\Server1-PC\Here -allcritical' This will create a backup in the share. (Use your own machine and share names) Recovery from a network share (same assumptions as above for network resources and names) Step 1 - Launch the Windows Recovery Environment from the Vista installation disk and select the command prompt Step 2 - Use the 'startnet' command to start network resources Step 3 - At the command prompt type 'net use z: \\192.168.1.82\Here /user:name password' note the space after the z: and that the user name and password are those relating to the admin account on the machine with the share, in this case the share 'Here' on Server1-PC (ip 192.168.1.82). Separate the name and password with a space. We do not actually use the mapped drive z: but it authorises us to use the share. Step 4 -Enter 'wbadmin get versions -backuptarget:\\192.168.1.82\Here' This will recover the version of the backup in the format MM/DD/YYYY-HH:MM Step 5 - Enter 'wbadmin start sysrecovery -version:MM/DD/YYYY-HH:MM -backuptarget:\\Server1-PC\Here' This should start the recovery assuming that the disk resources on the machine you are recovering are of at least the same number and size of the machinethat you backed up. If you have multiple machine backups in the share you may need to add the '-machine:xxxxx' parameter where xxxxx is the name of the machine you are recovering in this case it would be Server1-PC. This seemed to work without having to define any IP addresses other than that for the machine with the share.Any further input is most welcome. This specific process would not recover from the NAS though so I'm still working on that. Steve

Good work Steve! Here are my questions and comments on the procedure that you suggest: Backup to a network share >> Open an elevated (run as adminstrator) command prompt from >> within Vista and enter the following command line >> 'wbadmin start backup -backuptarget:\\Server1-PC\Here -allcritical' Comment 1: I suggest a preparatory step which at least seemed mandatory for my LaCie NAS. I updated my firmware to the most recent version which contains a newer version of Samba which is compatible with Vista. Comment 2: Apart from starting cmd as an administrator, I would also make sure that the workgroup (or domain) and the user account is the same on both units (workstation and NAS) so that I can access the drive. Question: Have you figured out what the flag -allcritical really means? Otherwise I use exactly the same concept. Recovery from a network share >> Step 1 - Launch the Windows Recovery Environment from the Vista >> installation disk and select the command prompt >> Step 2 - Use the 'startnet' command to start network resources >> Step 3 - At the command prompt type >> 'net use z: \\192.168.1.82\Here /user:name password' Comment on Step 1: This is based on the assumption that your machine arrived with a real Vista installation disk. Many manufacturers don't offer this luxury. For a discussion about that, please consult: http://neosmart.net/blog/2008/windows-vista-recovery-disc-download/ The fine article also presents downloads to both Windows Vista x86 and x64 Recovery Discs for those of us who don't have access to the original media. Question about Step 2: Have you figured out what this startnet command exactly does? There seems to be some scripting inolved which also should be uncovered. I haven't been able to trace any documentation about this command. It seems somehow to be related to Plug and Play functionality. But this can be a limitation, since not every system is configured to support Plug and Play. Comment about Step 3: I had to use netsh (netsh interface ipv4 set address name="<ID>" source=static address=<StaticIP> mask=<SubnetMask> gateway=<DefaultGateway> -- as suggested earlier) to configure the network connection before I could address the NAS. Another comment about Step 3: Congratulations. This worked on my NAS and I would assume that wbadmin will make use of the same credentials (this remains to be checked with another machine which has yet another backup image on aneSata drive -- I just wantto be on the safe side). I found out, however, that my NAS wouldn't respond unless I used the workgroup/username format for user info. Questionabout Step 4: The version information is very scanty indeed. Did you discover any supported method of giving a fuller account of the nature of the backup. Or do we have to add an external ReadMe to describe what the the backup image is all about? Greetings ph

pha few responses to your comments/questions >>Comment 1: I suggest a preparatory step which at least seemed mandatory for my LaCie NAS. I updated my firmware to the most recent version which contains a newer version of Samba which is compatible with Vista. I'm using a D-Link DNS 323 and am running the latest firmware, your recommendation to update to the latest firmware on the NAS is well taken. >> Comment 2: Apart from starting cmd as an administrator, I would also make sure that the workgroup (or domain) and the user account is the same on both units (workstation and NAS) so that I can access the drive. Agreed and confirmed for my set up. >> Question: Have you figured out what the flag -allcritical really means? Otherwise I use exactly the same concept. My understanding is that -allcritical ensures the copying of the system/boot volumes, would seem most relevant if making a multi partition/drive copy to ensure the backup boots and can probably be left out if backing up the boot drive. >> Comment on Step 1: This is based on the assumption that your machine arrived with a real Vista installation disk. Many manufacturers don't offer this luxury. For a discussion about that, please consult: http://neosmart.net/blog/2008/windows-vista-recovery-disc-download/ The fine article also presents downloads to both Windows Vista x86 and x64 Recovery Discs for those of us who don't have access to the original media. Good point, I have built a copy that boots from a USB key but the reference you give is a much easier way of getting a copy than building one, atleast the way I went about it >> Question about Step 2: Have you figured out what this startnet command exactly does? There seems to be some scripting inolved which also should be uncovered. I haven't been able to trace any documentation about this command. It seems somehow to be related to Plug and Play functionality. But this can be a limitation, since not every system is configured to support Plug and Play. Startnet only seems to run the command 'wpeinit' which apparently:installs PnP devices, processes Unattend.xml settings, and loads network resources. However if I run wpeinit on its own the network resources don't seem to load. So not much clearer I'm afraid. >> Comment about Step 3: I had to use netsh (netsh interface ipv4 set address name="<ID>" source=static address=<StaticIP> mask=<SubnetMask> gateway=<DefaultGateway> -- as suggested earlier) to configure the network connection before I could address the NAS. I'm not sure why I don't need to do this. I can ping the NAS and in fact start an FTP session to it from the RE prompt, what I still can't do is map a drive or define a share to it from the RE prompt. >> Another comment about Step 3: Congratulations. This worked on my NAS and I would assume that wbadmin will make use of the same credentials (this remains to be checked with another machine which has yet another backup image on aneSata drive -- I just wantto be on the safe side). I found out, however, that my NAS wouldn't respond unless I used the workgroup/username format for user info. Can you be more specific on the syntax for the workgroup/username parameter maybe put it into the context of the net use command? I just get the message back "A specified logon session does not exist. It may already have been ternminated" when I try to map a drive to the NAS. >> Questionabout Step 4: The version information is very scanty indeed. Did you discover any supported method of giving a fuller account of the nature of the backup. Or do we have to add an external ReadMe to describe what the the backup image is all about? No, the only information I can get from the image is the Date/Time of creation and the machine. One other question. I find that network throughput when transferring files to theNAS is around 16 MBytes per second which seems to be about right for the D-Link DNS 323 according to benchmarks on the web. However if transferring files to another Vista PC on the network I get around 75 MBytes/second throughput about 4 time faster. What's been your experience? Regards Steve

ph I got the work group syntax and can now access the NAS for recovery. On your comment: >> Questionabout Step 4: The version information is very scanty indeed. Did you discover any supported method of giving a fuller account of the nature of the backup. Or do we have to add an external ReadMe to describe what the the backup image is all about? There is an additonal command instead of running 'get versions' you can run 'get items' secifying the version date, time and machine. I have found it gets half way through the report and then crashes the PE environment though. Steve

Hi Steve Thanks for your explanation on additional backup data which could be accessible by wbadmin. Maybe the 'wbadmin get items' syntax works only on Windows Server 2008. It seems that you have a better understanding of what the startnet command does, but we aren't still quite clear about the functionality and the mechanisms involved. It would interesting to hearsome of the experts on this forum who would have a more intimate understanding of this network command which is so vital for the Windows Recovery Environment. >> Comment about Step 3: I had to use netsh (netsh interface >> ipv4 set address name="<ID>" source=static address=<StaticIP> >> mask=<SubnetMask> gateway=<DefaultGateway> -- as suggested earlier) >> to configure the network connection before I could address the NAS. > I'm not sure why I don't need to do this. I can ping the NAS and > in fact start an FTP session to it from the RE prompt, what I still > can't do is map a drive or define a share to it from the RE prompt. It seems to me that we are working in differing network environments. My units are equipped with ip's which are static like yours, but they are public. The address 192.168.1.82 is part of aspecial address space which you can use privately for your LAN. The WinRE supplied mask also fits wellwith your setting. So I would guess that the startnet command gives your workstation an address and a mask which seems to be compatible with the rest of the address space that you are using. My workstation wouldn't know about the ip's that I've assigned to my NAS and the other workstations, so I have to explicitely assign these parameters to the workstation NICbefore it can start communicating with the other devices. > One other question. I find that network throughput when transferring > files to the NAS is around 16 MBytes per second which seems to be > about right for the D-Link DNS 323 according to benchmarks on the web. > However if transferring files to another Vista PC on the network I > get around 75 MBytes/second throughput about 4 time faster. > What's been your experience? My transfer speeds to and from the NAS are similar to yours.- Are you implying that the transfer speed depends somehow on your network configuration? According to my experience the decisive factor limiting transfer speeds to and from the NAS, is its ability to write and read from the hard disk. So even if you would be operating a gigabit network, the speed would always be limited by the capabilities of the NAS. Greetings ph

ph I think your observations on the IP adress space are probably correct, my whole environment is in the private address space. On the throughput question the drives in the NAS and those in the PC I am comparing it to are basically the same. Reading and writing to the PC is just four time faster, it still doesn't saturate the Gigabit network but gets to about 80% of the bandwidth. One thought is that the NAS does not operate natively in NTFS so there must be some extra overhead in the file transfer process. Steve

Hi Steve I'm still trying to find out about the relation between Backup and Restore Center and wbadmin. Then I will move back to the WinRE and network share -issue. There are still a couple of details to be figured out, but you can soon expect some mail here or on the companion forum. >> One thought is that the NAS does not operate natively in NTFS so there must be >> some extra overhead in the file transfer process. I'm no specialist on these matters, but the devices I've looked into are based on some kind of an embedded Linux solution. So basically they don't "operate natively in NTFS" but they are just getting pretty sophisticated in handling Windows storage. I think we can think of these NAS'es as black boxes performing the task we need. Obviously I wouldlove to learn about network attached storage which would operate nativelye.g. in Windows XPe.The lack of such systemsis an unfortunate shortcoming, because I really would like to see features like generic WebDAV being implemented in these devices, and Windows XP is really good enough for that. WebDAV doesn't seem to be forthcoming in Vista (although some of the MS developers gave us the impression that such capability would be offered in SP1). Greetings ph

Hi again Steve and others: I wanted to figure out what the relation is between Backup& Restore Center and the wbadmin command. Had some indication that B&RC was only a front-end for the wbadmin command. This turned out to be quite close to the truth, but not really very exact. After starting a Computer Backup from B&RC a window with the caption Windows Complete PC Backup turns up. This is actually what the designers wantthis functionalityto be called. The Storage Team at Microsoft maintains a blog site which describes some of the features of their product: http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/archive/tags/CompletePC+Backup/default.aspx Theyalso confirm the close relationship between Complete PC Backup and the command line tool wbadmin. While many of the core MS technologies offer an API for programmers, these guys maintain that the wbadmin command is the API which can be used inside any Windows program. Apparently they refer to scripting. A peek into the tasklist reveals that Complete PC Backup seems to utilize the Volume Shadow Copy Service (VSSVC.exe) in performing its job and VSSat least does havean API. While retrieving information on the relation between B&RC and wbadmin I came across Mark Minasi's articles on the topic. Markhas writtengood material for the Microsoft Systems Journal. Nowadays heseems toearn his living by giving lectures. There is a support site at http://www.minasi.com/Newsletters #63, #64and #66 give the best summary of wbadmin that I came across. But as toVista network connections in the recoveryenvironment, Mark is also very brief: "In the command prompt, type 'startnet' and press Enter." So I still feltrather suspicious about this command and lucky me for being on my alert. It turned out that when I started atest recovery on the secondary workstation, everything went rather well until I again typed startnet and pressed Enter. Quite routinely I executed the ipconfig command, just to discover that I didn't have a network connection. Netsh wouldn't give me an ability to configure my NIC, because there was no such interface -- as I could find out withthe command:netsh int ip show interfaces. There was only the Loopback Pseudo Interface which I've used in accessing TCP/IP services on my own computer. But didn't really think thatI would be able to tune that interface to become a NIC. -- That's when I realized that in order to be able to rely on Vista backup in a network scenario, we must really know about startnet. Hacking into the WinRE revealed that Startnet.cmd is a file with 9 characters: wpeinit and a cr character, I suppose. So this is regular batch file. Wpeinit is in fact properly documented in MS Technet: "Wpeinit.exe specifically installs PnP devices, processes Unattend.xml settings, and loads network resources." "Wpeinit outputs a log messages to c:\Windows\system32\wpeinit.log." Had a look at the log file and unfortunately the logwrongly confirmed tome that everything had proceeded successfully. There was, however, a line which caught my interest: Info Installing device pci\ven_10ec&dev_8168 X:\windows\INF\netrtx32.inf succeeded WinRE apparently managed to load a network driver which was not compatible with my hardware. So what to do? WinRE gives a GUIoption of installing drivers. So I downloaded the up-to-date Realtek Vista drivers from HP; installed them during the boot process; and now magic startnet did its work correctly. The sense moral of this story is that we shouldn't rely on tech advice of the type 'run startnet and press Enter' before we really understand what these words imply. --Maybe I'm now more or less ready to rely on Vista Backup and network sharesto safeguard myprecious workstation installation. Greetings ph