re: KB2780435 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2780435 excerpt: "Update adds Windows 8 and Windows Server 2012 support to stand-alone Forefront Endpoint Protection 2010 clients" COMMENT: The documentation for the above "non-security" and "out of band" (on 11/28/2012) ***Windows 7 update*** is very confusing, and does not explain how the update applies to Windows 7. I spent 30 minutes looking for some way to subscribe to a bulletin facility for such "non-security" updates, but could not find one.

This is not an out-of-band update. Microsoft released nonsecurity non critical updates on the 4th Tuesday of the month. It provides support to the Windows 8 platform. It is a stability update. You should also install it to Windows 7 (as recommended by Windows update) because you should always keep your programs up-to-date. http://www.sccm-tools.com http://sms-hints-tricks.blogspot.com

Please provide a reference to 4th Tuesday updates. I have never heard of them. Most of your answer does not address the specific questions I originally posted, and is inadequate. I do not need someone to mindlessly parrot MS-Speak. AGAIN: It is not apparent why a Windows 8/2012 update needs to be installed in Windows 7. Sounds completely ridiculous. The assumption being that the code is valid, but the documentation was not written with a Windows 7 audience in mind. Hopefully. I hope this is not the model for a lot of silly Windows 8 hype mindset in the near future. AGAIN: where are the bulletins for these "4th Tuesday" patches? Is there anyone at Microsoft that can fix things that are wrong anymore?

Does this KB updates the forefront client 2010 to 2012?

The update is intended for Forefront 2010. Since this only modifies the client to add support for Win8/Server 2012 it can be installed to any Update 1 Fep client. Microsoft has been releasing non security updates on the 4th Tuesday for almost 10 years now. Your lack of undertanding or knowlege is no reason to question the verocity of the information. You would go far in the forum if you opened your mind and not jump to conclusions about the "mindlessly parrot MS-Speak." The listing of updates can be found here, updated daily. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/894199 Example: on the link above the Summary has this: This information will be updated either during our regular update releases on the second and fourth Tuesday of every month or whenever an unscheduled update is released. This article lists changes that were made on or after January 10, 2012. It does not list changes that were made before that date. For more information about changes that occurred before January 10, 2012, see the "References" section. **----- Timing of updates. Security updates are released by Microsoft on the second Tuesday of each month. On the Thursday prior to the second Tuesday, an email will be sent alerting you to the type and number of security patches to expect. If you sign up for the comprehensive alerts from this page - http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/dd252948.aspx you will get these "heads up" emails automatically. Details of these updates will only be posted on the second Tuesday of the month. On the fourth Tuesday of the Month, Microsoft releases non security and servicing updates. These consist of application compatibility updates and at times, .NET servicing updates. On the Thursday prior to the fourth Tuesday, http://support.microsoft.com/kb/894199 lists what may be released. It can change however. Anytime you see an update on this fourth Tuesday of the month, it is not an out of band (out of cycle) update. If you see an update that is not on the second Tuesday and is not on the fourth Tuesday, it may indeed be an out of band (out of cycle) release. Please pay extra attention to updates that don't fall in the second or fourth week releases as they may need immediate deployment.http://www.sccm-tools.com http://sms-hints-tricks.blogspot.com

This patch has been breaking machines in our company all morning! On reboot the machine gets stuck on the "Starting Windows" splash screen. Startup repair cannot fix it. You have one shot at "Last known good configuration". You can get into safe mode but the patch is NOT listed under "View installed updates" and CANNOT be removed.

This is because it the update installs a new FEP client. You would need to uninstall the Endpoint protection. http://www.sccm-tools.com http://sms-hints-tricks.blogspot.com

This is because it the update installs a new FEP client. You would need to uninstall the Endpoint protection. http://www.sccm-tools.com http://sms-hints-tricks.blogspot.com So your saying in order to update the product, I need to uninstall it first?? Huh?? It comes and a Windows update..

So this update update the client from 2.0 to 4.1. Is there a reason why the directory structure is different? The antimalware folder has disapeared and all the executables are one folder higher. This messed up my golden image deploy since I run a full system scan in the end.

Hi, uninstalling the old verison of FEP Client ist no more possible, if the Client Update Package KB2780435 was installed. Re-installing the old version is not possible, too. The only solution at the moment I've found is to set system to the "last know good configuration" to the date before installing the Forefront Endpoint Protection Client Update Package KB2780435. Does anybody knows an another solution?

Again, you have completely failed to address the actual question, or the underlying issue, *IN A MEANINGFUL WAY*, and are simply parroting mindless MS-Speak. The KB says NOTHING ABOUT STABILITY. This is what happens when IT becomes a cult. To be clear: the KB documentation states that patch "adds support" for Windows 8/2012 for many customers where no such support is needed. Many customers do not have Windows 7 machines running "standalone" FEP 2010 and Win8/2012. Even if they did, the horrible and idiotic documentation for this KB does not explain why any "support" for Win8/2012 FEP ***installs*** is needed on STANDALONE WIN7 machines. excerpt from the KB: "File information This update includes a new version of the Forefront Endpoint Protection Configuration Manager deployment package. ... " There is no reason I can think of that a new version of a "Configuration Manager deployment package" for a completely different OS should need to be included in a "standalone" FEP client for Win7! Upon further investigation, most of the content (specifically including the problematic content) of the documentation for this KB appears to have been lifted from a similar KB, and is possibly related to some kind of mess that MS created when they "hardened security" by updating signatures for a large number of patches and that caused havoc for patch management servers. In other words, this is probably somehow a "CYA" type thing. Having ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with "standalone" Win7 clients. Except that the code used in the previous KB to update FEP 2010 versions was probably copied into this KB with as little modification as possible. Presumably to keep even more "stuff" from breaking behind the scenes in BIZARROLAND.

After the patch, the "standalone" version (not SCCM managed) I have of FEP, originally installed as FEP 2010, is 4.1.522.0 Not sure if that is "FEP 2012", but probably not since it does not advertise itself as an upgrade. (?)

re: "Your lack of undertanding or knowlege is no reason to question the verocity of the information. You would go far in the forum if you opened your mind and not jump to conclusions about the "mindlessly parrot MS-Speak." Actually it is *exactly* the reason for questioning the VERACITY of the information. MS seems to be more intersted in plastering a lot of stupid looking Windows 8 "tiles" everywhere than providing quality customer support. The statements made in KB2780435 are blatantly nonsensical. Your initial response was nominated as an "answer" even though it did not actually answer anything *in a meaningful way*. It is because I questioned the VERACITY of what you said that you provided a link to KB894199. Thanks. Please indicate where that document is linked from. I hope it isn't from the main "Security" TechNet page since it is a list that includes "non-security" patches. An "open mind" is defined as a thought process not attached to a baised perspective. The reality is that MS has a very long and sad history of providing disorganized, incorrect, distorted information or outright LIES (including in front of the Supreeme Court of the United States), and of encouraging an absurdly conformist and unsophisticated/inauthentic mindset amongst developers and "IT Pros" that are economically, psychologically and culturally "dependent" on Microsoft's corporate ecosystem. Clearly this presents a significant possibility of corruption and disinformation (known as the "one truth above all" anti-pattern). There is at least one professional blog/web site (Susan Bradley's "Patch Watch") dedicated to disinformation and bad technology issues related to MS Patches! I have no interst in "going far" in any conformist IT forum. I have no need to see people massage their bloated egos in public, or to parrot the incredible quantity of annoying, non-customer-friendly "corporate-speak" information, which is frequently characterised by being mostly devoid of meaningful content, that issues forth from Microsoft on a regular basis. The IT industry is full of massive levels of failure (dehumanizing artifacts of industrial culture), and has been that way for decades. (references to research available upon request.) It is only when people are willing to get past all of the self-serving, ego-gratifying rhetoric that comes out of dysfunctional organizations that real innovation and real customer service can happen. Thus, IT can be taken back from the "marketing captured" mindset that prevails at companies that are in a death spiral because of greed and a need for autocratic control. Exploitation of workers and customers has to end, the appalling levels of hubris and arrogance has to end.

For people whose sanity is still intact, please note: The other recent KB article about a FEP 2010 patch/update: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2758685 Article ID: 2758685 - Last Review: November 22, 2012 - Revision: 2.0 [<---] Update adds Windows 8 and Windows Server 2012 support to Forefront Endpoint Protection 2010 clients This article describes an update that adds Microsoft Forefront Endpoint Protection 2010 client support to Windows 8 and Windows Server 2012. After you install this update, you can install the Forefront Endpoint Protection 2010 client on a computer that is running Windows 8 or Windows Server 2012. [!!! --->] Note This update only applies to Forefront Endpoint Protection 2010 clients that are integrated with Microsoft System Center Configuration Manager 2007. --- Compare the above "out of band" patch with the "4th Tuesday" patch that is in question: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2780435 Article ID: 2780435 - Last Review: November 28, 2012 - Revision: 1.0 [<---] Update adds Windows 8 and Windows Server 2012 support to [*]stand-alone[*] Forefront Endpoint Protection 2010 clients This article describes an update that enables the Microsoft Forefront Endpoint Protection 2010 client to support Windows 8 and Windows Server 2012. After you install this update, you can install the Forefront Endpoint Protection 2010 client on a computer that is running Windows 8 or Windows Server 2012. [--->] Note This update applies to the stand-alone Forefront Endpoint Protection 2010 client. ---end excerpts--- Conclusion: seems like the real issue has to do with SCCM 2007 breakage. And indeed, there are self-congratulatory blogs from MS employees/managers discussing recent problems that they fixed with SCCM 2007 when stuff got horribly broken when large numbers of updates were re-issued from MS patch management servers for NO GOOD REASON (when the patching servers were "hardened" for "security"). http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Profile/j.c.%20hornbeck/activity http://blogs.technet.com/b/configmgrteam/archive/2012/11/19/hotfix-available-for-invalid-software-updates.aspx Then, somehow an upgrade from FEP 2010 v2.0.657.0 to v4.1.522.0 for "standalone" (non-SCCM 2007) Win7 clients came about. Without adequate explanation. Another possibility is that people were in a hurry to get away for the USA Thanksgiving holiday and simply did not exercise due diligence in documenting the issue as it related to the recent Win8 release. (?) Which was probably cause for significant stress/exhaustion. (?) To me is seem EXTREMELY PECULIAR that an upgrade to a critical element of PC security (ANTI-VIRUS) was upgraded in such a BIZARRO manner.

After about 10 hours on the phone with Microsoft, we were able to find a solution. If your machine boots under "Last known good configuration", immediatly uninstall and reinstall FEP. Then block the KB. If your machine does not boot into Last known good config but will boot into safe mode, do the following: Under HKLM\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\services\MPFilters\ modify the "ImagePath" key from "system32\DRIVERS\MpFilter.sys" to system32\DRIVERS\Bogus.sys Reboot Uninstall FEP, reinstall FEP, Disable the KB from installing.

For anyone that doubts that there are creepy mind-games and a deeply dysfunctional organizational culture within Microsoft, please read the following: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/11/how-four-microsoft-engineers-proved-copy-protection-would-fail/ "How 4 Microsoft engineers proved that the darknet would defeat DRM And how they nearly got fired for it."

"...uninstalling the old verison of FEP Client ist no more possible, if the Client Update Package KB2780435 was installed. Re-installing the old version is not possible, too. " FYI: After KB278035 was applied, I WAS ABLE to uninstall FEP 2010 (v 4.1.522.0). I rebooted (even though not asked to after the FEP install), and reinstalled the original version of FEP 2010 (v2.0.657.0). Windows update then told me that KB278035 needed to be installed. (FEP 2012 is not available in the specific context of the machines discussed in the original question.)

RESTATING THE ORIGINAL QUESTION: KB2780435 says: "Introduction Update adds Windows 8 and Windows Server 2012 support to stand-alone Forefront Endpoint Protection 2010 clients. After you install this update, you can install the Forefront Endpoint Protection 2010 client on a computer that is running Windows 8 or Windows Server 2012." (2) WHY DOES FEP 2010 *ON WINDOWS 7* NEED AN UPDATE FOR *UNSPECIFIED* WINDOWS 8/SERVER 2012 "SUPPORT", AND/OR TO INSTALL THE PRODUCT ON A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT OS THAN WINDOWS 7? (2) CAN SOMEONE SUBMIT A REQUEST TO CORRECT OR CLARIFY THE DOCUMENTATION, OR PROVIDE INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW TO DO SO?

Short answer: It is an update to the current client to {add} support windows 8/2012. Client updates are also released to the current version to help with stability. http://www.sccm-tools.com http://sms-hints-tricks.blogspot.com

re: > Microsoft has been releasing non security updates on the 4th Tuesday for almost 10 years now. Your lack of undertanding or knowlege > is no reason to question the verocity of the information. You would go far in the forum if you opened your mind and not jump to conclusions > about the "mindlessly parrot MS-Speak." > The listing of updates can be found here, updated daily. > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/894199 Comment: Hilarious: I just realized that KB2780435 is not even listed in the above document. So, again, MS provides no means of researching the details of a significant non-2nd Tuesday update of a critical security component (FEP 2010 ANTI-VIRUS) in an enterprise setting.

I feel for you. :( http://www.sccm-tools.com http://sms-hints-tricks.blogspot.com

REPORTED AS ABUSE: You have failed to adequately address the essential questions raised, wasted people's time with almost completely irrelevant and vacuous responses, and have now engaged in personally offensive remarks that have NOTHING to do with the discussion.

It appears you have a hard time with the Microsoft solution. I would recommend you contact PSS in order for you to resolve the problem you are experiencing. http://www.sccm-tools.com http://sms-hints-tricks.blogspot.com

REPORTED AS ABUSE: You have failed to adequately address the essential questions raised, wasted people's time with almost completely irrelevant and vacuous responses, and have now engaged in personally offensive remarks that have NOTHING to do with the discussion.

Did you contact Microsoft about your support issue? http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd346877.aspx http://www.sccm-tools.com http://sms-hints-tricks.blogspot.com

Typical of the mass of confusion on Microsoft's web site, you provided a link to a almost completely useless web page under the wrong product heading: "Internet Explorer 6 Administration Kit Service Pack 1: Deployment Guide"

"Typical of the mass of confusion on Microsoft's web site, you provided a link to a almost completely useless web page under the wrong product heading" It appears that didn't look at the title of the page:Using Microsoft Product Support Services Please use this information and contact Microsoft as it appears as if you are frustrated with their technology. Talking to them directly might help. Also, remember that people in the Microsoft forums are here to help, not necessarily do your job for you. http://www.sccm-tools.com http://sms-hints-tricks.blogspot.com

ABUSE REPORT: Irrelevant, personally offensive. Please refrain from posting information (such as parroting MS-Speak) that is irrelevant to the questions under consideration, and from making personally offensive statements.

MVPs and the community are here to help. It isn't "MS-Speak" I am sorry you feel that the solutions present don't help you while personal and global knowlege. We are not paid or under the lease of Microsoft. I feel that you should contact Microsoft directly as already instructed and the link given. Your personal attacks have no need to be in the forum. http://www.sccm-tools.com http://sms-hints-tricks.blogspot.com

Stop trolling. You have said nothing relevant in this entire thread. It is not apparent that you even use FEP 2010, or have an experience with the product.

Actually yes, I use FEp 2010 in a 100k enviroment and yes I have done technical reviews on FEP books. So yes, I have experience in FEP. :) http://www.sccm-tools.com http://sms-hints-tricks.blogspot.com

re: "Technical reviews on FEP books". GAG. This is silly. I can write a technical review on FEP books using toilet paper while siting on a toilet. (Why in [diety's] name anyone would read, much less write, read a "FEP book" boggles the mind.) There is a large mass of confusing, frequently inconsistent or out of date, and thus largely useless, material produced within the microsoft ecosystem. People apparently find that contributing to even more useless and confusing material satisfies their need for ego gratification/bloat. They also apparently find that posting irrelevant and self-congratulatory blather and attacking critics of microsoft's dysfunctional business culture provides them with some pathetic sense of worth or belonging. To be clear: the documentation for KB2780435 is blatantly confusing, misleading and incomplete wrt/ Win7 and Win 2003 server, and possibly other non-Win8/2012 OS's. Your attempts to *divert people from that fact* is bizarro and totally inconsistent with the purposes of user support forums. Your attempts to speak for MVPs or whoever else you presume, and take upon yourself the appearance of more expertise than you actually have, are ridiculous and appalling. Have a nice day.

More misadventures in MS-land: Attempting to follow the bizarre network of links on microsoft.com related to Windows Update documentation, I came across the following list of "non Windows" updates, which is OVER A MONTH OUT OF DATE. http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windowsserver/jj839419 In addition, there are frequent patch notifications that are largely devoid of meaningful content. But when one attempts to find out something about an out-of-band (or "4th Tuesday") patch, no relevant updates to pertinent documentation can be found. Perhaps the responsible parties are in the middle of a personal or family emergency, or on vacation, or similar?

Again, everyone has the ability to notify Microsoft and communicate possible problems. Have you contacted Microsoft about your issues? Obviously this is affecting you. WSUS forum: http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-us/winserverwsus/ Contacting MS: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-US/cc512759.aspx Since you notice the problem on the WSUS page. Use their forum and notify them of the problem and ask when it would be updated. http://www.sccm-tools.com http://sms-hints-tricks.blogspot.com

More useless information that has little or no relevance to the issue under discussion. As previously stated: "Attempting to follow the bizarre network of links on microsoft.com related to Windows Update documentation..." "To be clear: the documentation for KB2780435 is blatantly confusing, misleading and incomplete wrt/ Win7 and Win 2003 server, and possibly other non-Win8/2012 OS's. Your attempts to *divert people from that fact* is bizarro and totally inconsistent with the purposes of user support forums."

I think you should abandon the forum if you find it useless. Reporting me as abusive for giving you valueable answer demonstrates your lack of willingness to accept valuable information. http://www.sccm-tools.com http://sms-hints-tricks.blogspot.com

Stop trolling. No one cares what you think. You have not provided valuable information, you have wasted lots of time engaging in bullying attempts and with useless drivel and meaningless blather, apparently with the intent of gaining some pathetic sense of "belonging" to the conformist mentality of these forums. In the following, substitute "state" and "party" with "corporation" to understand what MS-speak means. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak Newspeak is a fictional language in George Orwell's novel Nineteen Eighty-Four. In the novel, it refers to the deliberately impoverished language promoted by the state. Orwell explained the basic principles of the language in an essay included as an appendix to the novel.<sup class="reference" id="cite_ref-appendix_1-0">[1]</sup> Newspeak is closely based on English but has a greatly reduced and simplified vocabulary and grammar. The totalitarian aim of the Party is to prevent any alternative thinking"thoughtcrime", or "crimethink" in the newest edition of Newspeakby destroying any vocabulary that expresses such concepts as freedom, free enquiry, individualism, resistance to the authority of the state and so on. One character, Syme, says admiringly of the diminishing scope of the new language: "It's a beautiful thing, the destruction of words."

The following documentation for FEP 2010 is horribly out of date. http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff823774.aspx (well over a year, FEP 2010 RU1 was summer 2011?) In addition, various MADDENING MS product pages for FEP 2010 incorrectly link to other product documentation for 2012 versions of the product! This is typical of many years/decades of customer-unfriendly information provided by MS at times where there are major version upgrades of the current "flagship" MS/applications. In this case, MS is simply slapping enterprise customers in the face (with cr*ppy/careless/inadequate documentation) for daring to not upgrade to Win8/2012.

It appears that you might have found a problem with documentation, I would recommend that you contact Microsoft and let them know of the issue. Following the links I have already provided you can contact Microsoft Support. It could be that were you unable to locate the revelant information, Microsoft support will help you with this and could update the previous documentation so it could help others. http://www.sccm-tools.com http://sms-hints-tricks.blogspot.com

You continue to mindlessly parrot MS-Speak and post irrelevant information and links to bizarro pages full of meaningless, useless and confusing information under incorrect product headings. I have no interest in paying microsoft for the privilege of telling them that their documentation is a horrible disaster and their web site is a giant mess of material interlinked in frequently maddening ways. KBs HAVE A FEEDBACK SECTION AT THE BOTTOM OF THEIR WEB PAGE. *FREE*. *EASY*. PLEASE STOP POSTING USELESS, MINDLESS DRIVEL IN THIS THREAD.

Most KBs do have a feedback option at the bottom. The ones that don't you can find the Doc's email group or use the documentation group in the forums. The forefront forums are listed here. http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-us/category/forefront I wish you all the luck in solving your issue.http://www.sccm-tools.com http://sms-hints-tricks.blogspot.com

Not to throw gas on a fire, but seeing as how you have a very obvious hatred of all things Microsoft, one has to wonder why you use it? There are free operating systems available that are appropriate for most business needs.

Matthew, I run a 10k client shop, mostly XP but moving to Win7 as sanely as possible given our extremely varied client needs. I was reviewing the push to our test group and saw this update (I completely missed the notification) Drilling down I found 73 systems (Win7 and Server2008) that had installed the this update in the last two weeks with no reports of any issues. We are at FEP update rollup 1 with CM 2007 SP2 R3. My question is should I approve this update tonight to All Systems? Or schedule it later?

You can do it later, it is mainly for the Win 8 clients. It does have some client improvements. It also moves some files around. We are currently piloting the change to see any improvements. So far we have over 1,000 with the new version. We haven't had any issues with FEP on our workstations (winxp,vista,win7). We are also running it on some of our servers. If all goes well we will push the update for the machines that want it out of SCCM. Mainly I think this update aligns with the changes you will see in 2012 such as naming convention and possible stability. http://www.sccm-tools.com http://sms-hints-tricks.blogspot.com

Thanks Matthew. i've pulled the update until I can get more info.

ABUSE REPORT: irrelevant/offensive personal attack re: "Not to throw gas on a fire, but seeing as how you have a very obvious hatred of all things Microsoft, one has to wonder why you use it? There are free operating systems available that are appropriate for most business needs." You have made some appalingly stoopid assumptions based on nothing but your own misguided imagination. this is an enterprise product not a consumer product. Please stop trolling.

Yeah OK. I'll stop trolling. Whatever. Have a nice life. Or don't. Your choice.

JBark, KB2780435 is the (non-SCCM) "stand alone" FEP 2010 update KB2758685 is the (SCCM) FEP 2010 update I do not use SCCM/WSUS, so I'm not sure if the "notification" you mentioned is in the context of SCCM and/or WSUS, or not. If not, KB2780435 is not in the standard "patch tuesday" (2nd Tuesday) list of "security" updates from microsoft, so if that is where you were expecting to see a "notification", there never was one. If you expected SCCM to tell you about an update for a NON-SCCM client, I'm not sure if that makes any sense. KB2780435 updates FEP 2010 from v2.0.657.0 to v4.1.522.0 ***FOR NON-SCCM CLIENTS*** KB2758685 updates FEP 2010 from v2.0.657.0 to v4.1.522.0 *for* SCCM clients As I stated earlier in this thread, the public documentation for KB2780435 is completely inadequate to explain how this update is relevant to Win7/2003 (or any other non Win8/2012 environment). No one has provided ANY ADDITIONAL REFERENCES to other documentation, so it is simply a mystery as to why microsoft released this kind of weird "4th tuesday" patch to a important security component (anti-virus) for non Win8/2012 environments.

ABUSE REPORT: irrelevant/offensive personal attack re: "Yeah OK. I'll stop trolling. Whatever. Have a nice life. Or don't. Your choice." If you have nothing to say about the specific technical issues raised in this thread please refrain from any further responses that waste even more of other people's time.

You have stated many times that you don't like the doucumentation. Have you contacted Microsoft yet?http://www.sccm-tools.com http://sms-hints-tricks.blogspot.com

Understand that the file released is not a patch but an update. Hence, why it was released on the 4th Tuesday in accordance with the Microsoft practice. http://www.sccm-tools.com http://sms-hints-tricks.blogspot.com

To be clear: you do not speak for the Forums Admins here or for Microsoft in any official or authoritative capacity even though your silly and tedious rhetoric seems to seek to suggest exactly that. --- As I mentioned before, this KB has a feedback form at the bottom of its web page. Anyone that thinks that "contacting" Microsoft will actually result in any significant improvement in the ridiculous and appallingly SH*TTY documentation for this patch/hotfix/update, can feel free to do so. It is not your "business" if any such person submits a request in that manner (or otherwise), and I can not imagine that such information could possibly have any bearing on a SANE, RATIONAL discussion of the original question. As noted above: this is an ENTERPRISE PRODUCT. There is no reason for anyone to pay Microsoft support for the privilege of telling them how SH*TTY and STOOOPID their documentation is. --- The terms "patch", "update" ("hotfix". etc.) are used more or less interchangeably in the IT industry. You are nit picking. --- Again, you have provided exactly ZERO RELEVANT information in this entire thread. There is no comprehensive list of "non-critical/non-security" hotfixes/patches/updates ANYWHERE on Microsoft's vast, overly complex, disorganized and confusing web site (which is full of bad/circular links to more useless or irrelevant information) that shows KB2780435 as far as I can tell. What you have done is post a large amount of IRRELEVANT and some INCORRECT information. Which you apparently feel makes you an "authority" of some kind, qualified to make vacuous and endlessly meaningless posts that repeat the same stupid nonsense and drivel over and over infinitum (MS-Parrot-Speak). I guess in the insane world of Microsoft tech support, that probably does make you an "authority" by their "standards".

See below for the list of files/dates in this KB. NOTHING FROM NOVEMBER ---> WTF? Is the list wrong, incomplete, or is the information not relevant to the KB release date, which was MONTHS later than the listed file dates???? If the latter, what does that mean??? Dw20shared.msi 08-Feb-2012 08:06 Epp.msi 12-Sep-2012 12:56 Eppmanagement.msi 12-Sep-2012 12:56 Fepclient.msi 12-Sep-2012 12:56 Setup.exe 12-Sep-2012 09:25 Sqmapi.dll 08-Feb-2012 08:06 Windows6.0-kb981889-v2.msu 08-Feb-2012 08:06 Windows6.1-kb981889.msu 08-Feb-2012 08:06 Dw20shared.msi 08-Feb-2012 08:06 Epp.msi 12-Sep-2012 15:38 Eppmanagement.msi 12-Sep-2012 15:38 Fepclient.msi 12-Sep-2012 15:38 Setup.exe 12-Sep-2012 13:21 Sqmapi.dll 08-Feb-2012 08:06 Windows6.0-kb981889-v2.msu 08-Feb-2012 08:06 Windows6.1-kb981889.msu 08-Feb-2012 08:06 [--end list of files/dates included in the KB documentation--]

If you want to solve your problem, please take an active approach and not bad mouthing, bashing, complaing, name calling etc. If you don't wish to contact Microsoft then you have the solution already detailed in this forum and there is nothing further you need to do. Posting irelevant comment and attacking people only makes you look bad and unhappy. "To be clear: you do not speak for the Forums Admins here or for Microsoft in any official or authoritative capacity even though your silly and tedious rhetoric seems to seek to suggest exactly that." And to be clear, I don't speak for Microsoft, I speak for myself and the community at large. You spouting off the If you don't like what Microsoft has done then take action, if you used the feedback option then your task is done and you need not use this forum any longer. http://www.sccm-tools.com http://sms-hints-tricks.blogspot.com

re: " I speak for myself and the community at large." Under what auspices, other than your vastly overblown sense of grandiose self-importance (and endless ability to shovel endless quanities of BULLSH*T at idiots who desperately want a so called "expert" to tell them something that they imagine is useful), do you speak for any "community at large"? As previously stated: There is no requirement to pay Microsoft Tech Support money to tell them about their own SH*TTY documentation. Your opinions about when people need to use a forum are as irrelevant as they are stupid, time wasting drivel -- USELESS to anyone seeking actual "actionable" information about the KB in question and its SH*TTY documentation. You incessant repetition of useless, irrelevant DRIVEL and NONSENSE are meaningless parrotings of the IDIOTIC mindset that is typical of a highly dysfunctional, passive-aggressive organizational culture. To be clear: unless you have something >>>technically relevant<<< you need to ***STFU*** (stop parroting MS-Speak) and let this thread die. But you won't. Your vastly overblown bloated ego is WAY TOO BIG.

I assume you have yet to take action on your issue, given the use of the language above. Have used any avenue to contact Microsoft about the documentation? If no, then there no need to discredit Microsoft or other people for helping. Lack of knowlege is no need to become upset. The forums are here to help everyone. As previously stated there is no need to pay Microsoft for support, there are many free methods to contact them. There is no cost to contact Microsoft and tell them some of their documentation is out dated or not complete. While it seems you have discontent for Microsoft, I wish you all the luck in the world in solving your issue. http://www.sccm-tools.com http://sms-hints-tricks.blogspot.com

You have been told a very large number of times that your posts parrot mindless MS-Speak and are full of irrelevant drivel, incorrect and misleading information that wastes people's time, inappropriate personal attacks and attempts at bullying, etc. FEP 2010 is an enterprise product. No one in their right mind would disclose ANY personal or business related information to a bizarro, creepy TROLL or a cyber-stalker on a public forum. Your further participation in this thread is totally unwelcome, as well as completely, utterly pointless and futile and of absolutely no worth of any kind unless you have additional technical information about the actual topic. GO TROLL SOMEWHERE ELSE.

I have found Matt to be very helpful on this specfic issue and also on the past for several other. His advice to you was valid. Use it.

Agree. I happily say that Matt speaks for me in this thread. Your animosity to Microsoft and anyone who disagrees with you in the least bit in this thread is more a trolling behavior than anything I've seen on any of the MSDN forums.

I have made no personal attack and no bullying. Suggesting you talk to MS is not parrot speak or pushing the Microsoft Agenda. When I find a problem I look for the solution and many times I contact Microsoft via the Feedback option, CSS, or even Microsoft Connect. The fact the company has give everyone avenues to contact them shows that they want to know when you find an issue. Take solace in knowing that you contacted them and they fixed a problem. Giving you options and suggestions on what you can do go solve your problem is the intent of the forum. At no point have I resorted to name calling, profanity or another behavior you have exhibited.<o:p></o:p> There is no rule or law that states you have to contact Microsoft or do anything we suggest. If someone asks you if you have taken the steps then your response should be, "No I perfer not to contact Microsoft." or anything else. Lashing out helps no one in this forum. "FEP 2010 is an enterprise product" FEP is intended for the smallest to the largest enterprise. Intune can be used in an office of 5 machines. It still is FEP that is installed with the product. http://www.sccm-tools.com http://sms-hints-tricks.blogspot.com

More irrelevant drivel. You are deeply mired in Groupthink (which leads to scapegoating by imbeciles such as "Kamin of Ressik"). Your "solutions" and "opinions" are utterly idiotic. Please stop trolling and posting nonsense, the same stupid garbage over and over. Microsoft has a long history of engaging in despicable business practices, such as violating anti-trust laws (monopolistic practices) and lying to federal courts. 15 or 20 years ago, I saw a list of 400 smaller businesses that were ruthlessly driven out of business by Microsoft's illegal business practices. Bill Gates himself, until very recently, support ALEC, one of the most corrupt, plutocratic, anti-democratic lobbying groups in the USA. The intent of MS-Speak is to maintain denial of the nasty business practices and bad quality of support that has been part of the MS corporate culture since the beginning. There is NOTHING "normal" about the appalling, conformist mentality that has developed around MS products (and cr*ppy support/documentation), its purpose is to "put lipstick on a pig". There is nothing of "solace" (a stupid term to use in this context) about submitting KB feedback. MS is 99.99999% certain to do NOTHING to ever correct the information about this patch/hotfix/update (or all the other horrible documentation on related products) regardless of such feedback. You have seized on a stupid rhetorical device ("contact microsoft support") in order to attempt to flip blame for both Microsoft's appallingly bad documentation and your own ineptitude onto me. And then you continue to engage in irrelevant communication that has NOTHING to do with the topic under discussion when you object to the fact that someone gets frustrated about the endlessly repeated drivel and nonsense that you post. You have completely hijacked this thread with nonsense. And are now promoting groupthink/scapegoating. Dysfunctional personality.

JBark, I don't see much evidence that any useful or thread-relevant information was conveyed to you, but if you did find something useful, so much the better. As far as I can tell, you were advised to stop deploying the FEP 2010 hotfix/update. Or not. Or whatever else you want. You were told that stability was added. But no reference was given. As you presumably know, most MS patches are harmless, but some are notorious for breaking things. Claiming "stability" is just meaningless corporate boilerplate, unless some further evidence is presented. Which is hasn't. You were non-responsive when asked if you understand the difference between the KB under discussion and a KB that it appears to have been copied from. Here is the question again: > KB2780435 is the (non-SCCM) "stand alone" FEP 2010 update > KB2780435 updates FEP 2010 from v2.0.657.0 to v4.1.522.0 ***FOR NON-SCCM CLIENTS*** > KB2758685 is the (SCCM) FEP 2010 update > KB2758685 updates FEP 2010 from v2.0.657.0 to v4.1.522.0 *for* SCCM clients You were (presumably) discussing the SCCM update (KB2758685) in a thread that specifically is titled for the NON-SCCM update (KB2780435), which could be further cause for confusion for anyone that might be trying to actually find useful information in this thread about KB2780435. Of course you might simply be confused by the poor quality of the documentation that I originally complained about. --- It is clear that Matt's real intention is to deflect attention away from Microsoft's appallingly bad documentation of this update, and to redirect the "blame" for that failure back on any critic. That "tactic" is typical of people using MS-Speak (as explained further above). He is in denial about how much MS sucks. This is typical of the kind of silly, nonsensical groupthink and vacious drivel that goes along with microsoft's dysfunctional corporate culture and their socially irresponsible actions. Microsoft has created an army of parrots that simply make noise for the purpose of annoying anyone that dares to criticize their beloved (sh*tty) MS products. Please note that I have not badgered you and attempted to get you to inappropriately disclose irrelevant information about your business practices. Have a nice day.

ABUSE REPORT: More off-topic, irrelevant drivel. You are engaging in scapegoating. Stop trolling.

IMO the thread was originally created to be an Anti-Microsoft Political Soapbox. If e.pierce considers me an "imbecile" and claims to not be posting abusively, I am proud to wear that label. Have a nice life e.pierce, maybe one day you'll find a software company / OS / whatever that lives up to your obviously very high and exacting standards. I'm done posting here but will occasionally visit when I need a laugh. /salute

ABUSE REPORT: IRRELEVANT/BULLYING/SCAPEGOATING You are a petty, ridiculous, obsequious boot licker of a cargo-cult follower who parrots MS-Speak. Whatever atoll you were born on apparently was a nuclear bomb test site, resulting in several generations of brain damaged mutant trolls.

More meaningless bulls*t.From the beginning, you have provided little or no actual technically relevant information on the original question/issue. What you have done is to engage in trolling, serial lying, stating insults, personal attacks and disparaging remarks that were absurdly incorrect and wildly speculative. When called on such ridiculous behavior, you attempted to wrap yourself in false legitimacy by claiming to speak for some non-existent collective authority. Your behavior is consistent with a highly dysfunctional, reactionary and intolerant cargo-cult follower. You have never done anything that would indicate that you are able to see outside the box of parroted MS-Speak. Your behavior is completely appalling and ridiculous. Thank you for *finally* discontinuing the spewing of your idiotic, irrelevant drivel in this thread.

This thread is no longer worth time and effort. You mind is set, you belive we are trolling and MS mindless speak so I guess you will not find a relavent answer unless you contact Microsoft and ask them first hand your question.http://www.sccm-tools.com http://sms-hints-tricks.blogspot.com

(follow up to "Patch Watch" comments above) For anyone that has been BRAINWASHED into thinking that the generic/parroted MS-Speak about "stability" and "keeping patches up to date" has some rational basis, there are several recent patches for other MS technologies that are HORRIBLY BROKEN, This kind of breakage might be relatively "normal" for the poor quality of code from the slave gallies in Microsoft's development/engineering groups, or it may be that something more deeply disturbing is going on within the corporation (despicable behavior by leaders causing collapse of worker moral, etc.) that is resulting in a decline in product quality. https://msmvps.com/blogs/bradley/archive/2012/12/20/re-released-ms12-078-due-to-font-problem.aspx https://msmvps.com/blogs/bradley/archive/2012/12/18/kb2506143-kb2506146-removed-from-mu.aspx For CARGO-CULT TROLL FREE discussion, also see: http://www.patchmanagement.org/default.asp and http://social.technet.microsoft.com/profile/Susan+Bradley