How to lock system and keep user data portable?
I have recently bought a PC customized so there only are one SSD drive with 60GB for Win 7.
All kinds of user data (games, videos etc) are kept on external USB 3.0. I want all user stuff to be portable. Which is the first question: How can data, that programs save in default documents folder, come along, when I plugin the external HD to another
PC?
And how do I secure the system (SSD drive) from any changes except driver requirements?
Fx. When you install a game it will often at the end of installation also like to install directx and something redistributable. So I need to install directx and redistributable to system and the rest has to go to external drive including shortcuts. Ofc
if directx and redistributable could be portable too, it would work also.
If the system can not change, there is no need for antivirus and all the security updates. So how can I lock it (so there will never be virus) and turn off needless windows updates and background work?
July 4th, 2012 12:46pm
Your idea reminds me the following http://portableapps.com/
Free Windows Admin Tool Kit Click here and download it now
July 4th, 2012 1:55pm
Your idea reminds me the following http://portableapps.com/
July 4th, 2012 1:55pm
Your idea reminds me the following http://portableapps.com/
Have you tried portableapps? Because it does not bring along document data from default folder on system drive, neither does it lock the harddrive.
Deep Freeze from http://www.faronics.com/ locks the harddrive, and it can redirect data from document folder to another device. But it doesn't prevent windows update. And you can be unlucky and end up with a frozen system in an endless update loop that keep
rebooting.
Some say that windows 7 has complicated options to lock system. So I was wondering whether you can redirect document folder, lock the system and stop the needless updates and background working without other applications.
Free Windows Admin Tool Kit Click here and download it now
July 4th, 2012 4:10pm
Your idea reminds me the following http://portableapps.com/
Have you tried portableapps? Because it does not bring along document data from default folder on system drive, neither does it lock the harddrive.
Deep Freeze from http://www.faronics.com/ locks the harddrive, and it can redirect data from document folder to another device. But it doesn't prevent windows update. And you can be unlucky and end up with a frozen system in an endless update loop that keep
rebooting.
Some say that windows 7 has complicated options to lock system. So I was wondering whether you can redirect document folder, lock the system and stop the needless updates and background working without other applications.
July 4th, 2012 4:10pm
Hi,
As far as I know, it is unable to lock the system as you said. So we still need to get the latest updates to keep our computer safety.
In addition, you can save your files in the external HD so that the files can be achieved when connect to another computer. However, some program settings may register to your original Windows 7 that could not be portable as you wanted.
Regards
Vincent Wang
TechNet Community Support
Free Windows Admin Tool Kit Click here and download it now
July 6th, 2012 5:21am
Overview
Windows SteadyState does not support Windows 7; however, many of its features can be replicated by using native Windows 7 features and free tools from Microsoft. This document is intended primarily for IT pros who configure shared-computer access in business
environments, but partners who support shared-computer access in schools, libraries, and Internet cafes will also find the information useful.
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=24373
Restoring the Hard Disk Drive
A typical user session causes many changes to the Windows partition. It creates, changes, and modifies program files. The operating system updates settings as part of its normal activity. Given that one of Bens requirements is
to provide a consistent experience from one user session to the next, he needs a way to discard these changes each time a user session ends.
In Windows SteadyState, Windows Disk Protection helps protect system settings and data from permanent changes on the partition on which the Windows operating system is installed. Windows 7 does not provide a similar capability.
However, free tools from Microsoft can help Ben automatically reimage shared computers every night.
Reinstalling windows 7 every night doesnt seem like the brightest idea...
July 12th, 2012 5:08am
About configurating windows system for a home entertainment computer:
I figure windows 7 is better than windows 8 for a home entertainment PC, because of several reasons like windows 8 is dedicated PCs with touchscreen, and who want to get up from the sofa just to change tv channel/movie; or what's the use when you need a
mouse to play games?
1. Using SSD drive only for the system should make it more secure and alot faster
- According to online debates (fx.
this ) it seems like
Shadow Defender is the best system security for a home computer, because using
Rollback Rx (using restore points) requires more management and is less secure. But since Shadow Defender makes changes to harddisk virtual what other stuff than windows automatic update, windows defender, restore
points do you need to turn off? Where do you turn off automatic defrag?
2. It's also debated how to move user folder location to another drive, which makes it easier to restore the system and makes space for larger documents than SSD drive can contain. Using symlinks should solve that task.
- But when using
mklink do you have to run the same commands on every boot like in a batch file or are they permanent?
- And if you redirect the user folder to external drive, will that also redirect the desktop and mydocuments folder?
Free Windows Admin Tool Kit Click here and download it now
July 17th, 2012 8:20am
60 GB SSD Drive Labeled "System" C:
System Programs (maybe 20-40 GB)
Pagefile (Keeping the pagefile on SSD will probably make OS faster)
--------
Secured by a System Image and :
Deep Freeze (anti virus)
Rollback Rx (anti bug)
(Shadow Defender is not compatible with SSD & TRIM)
1 TB USB v3.0 Labeled "Data" D:
System Image Backup
Applications/Games
Users Folder
Sandbox Folder (for preinstallations)
--------
Secured by Sandboxie and File Verifier++ and a Virus Scanner on Downloads:
AVZ
Kaspersky Virus Removal Tool
ClamWin
After Windows 7 installation have all driver updates from your motherboard vendor ready
Enable display of hidden folders and files in explorer and to check what temporary folders are created during drivers update
Update BIOS and check BIOS settings (that it supports virtual machine etc.)
And set use of AHCI (not IDE) for SSD
Update Drivers (processor, SSD, SATA, USB etc; old processor driver might not support SSD TRIM function)
Check in system that all hardware & drivers are working and delete again temporary folders created during updates
Use USBDLM to secure a letter for the drive that Users folder is to be redirected to
Redirect Users folder to "Data" drive as described
here or do it using a program like
Profile Relocator.
Turn off:
Indexing (probably useless if system is frozen with DF or Rollback RX) Windows Restore (it has issues with SSD TRIM & to use less space on SSD) Hibernation Option (SSD boot should be just as fast) Enter cmd (command prompt): powercfg -h off
Splash Screen: Winkey + R, type MSConfig and enable NO GUI Boot Prefetch, Superfetch, Boottrace for SSD in regedit: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\SessionManager\MemoryManager\PrefetchParameters and set them to 0
Windows Defender Defrag schedule for SSD drive (do not defrag SSD!) Windows Update (because system will be frozen)
Lower Recycle Bin to 200MB to save space on SSD and reduce writes.
Install additional Themes and setup background rotation and power savings
Install Desktop Gadgets and configure icons, menus and explorer
Check Pagefile location and size (Keep it on SSD for faster OS or on "Data" drive for more space)
Check graphics card settings (highest res), Processor settings and perhaps SSD configuration
Install System Tools:
Deep Freeze
Rollback RX
CCleaner (To clean registry from installation trash
Fraps (nessecary in 3D games to setup graphics)
Daemon Tools Lite (to mount .iso files)
DirectX
(game edition)
Redistributable packages
7zip
Sandboxie
File Verifier++
USBDLM Get VMWare Player (if you want to try new OS Windows 8)
Check Windows 7 install list Run all system tools and do setup Set all programs auto update to off Enable Internet Explorer in sandbox Create a Sandbox folder on "Data" drive Run CCleaner Create System Image and save it to "Data" drive Freeze System with DF and Rollback RX Later after you have installed applications/games on "Data" drive run File Verifier++ and create integrity list.
July 22nd, 2012 10:23am
60 GB SSD Drive Labeled "System" C:
System Programs (maybe 20-40 GB)
Pagefile (Keeping the pagefile on SSD will probably make OS faster)
--------
Secured by a System Image and :
Deep Freeze (anti virus)
Rollback Rx (anti bug)
(Shadow Defender is not compatible with SSD & TRIM)
1 TB USB v3.0 Labeled "Data" D:
System Image Backup
Applications/Games
Users Folder
Sandbox Folder (for preinstallations)
--------
Secured by Sandboxie and File Verifier++ and a Virus Scanner on Downloads:
AVZ
Kaspersky Virus Removal Tool
ClamWin
After Windows 7 installation have all driver updates from your motherboard vendor ready
Enable display of hidden folders and files in explorer and to check what temporary folders are created during drivers update
Update BIOS and check BIOS settings (that it supports virtual machine etc.)
And set use of AHCI (not IDE) for SSD
Update Drivers (processor, SSD, SATA, USB etc; old processor driver might not support SSD TRIM function)
Check in system that all hardware & drivers are working and delete again temporary folders created during updates
Use USBDLM to secure a letter for the drive that Users folder is to be redirected to
Redirect Users folder to "Data" drive as described
here or do it using a program like
Profile Relocator.
Turn off:
Indexing (probably useless if system is frozen with DF or Rollback RX) Windows Restore (it has issues with SSD TRIM & to use less space on SSD) Hibernation Option (SSD boot should be just as fast) Enter cmd (command prompt): powercfg -h off
Splash Screen: Winkey + R, type MSConfig and enable NO GUI Boot Prefetch, Superfetch, Boottrace for SSD in regedit: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\SessionManager\MemoryManager\PrefetchParameters and set them to 0
Windows Defender Defrag schedule for SSD drive (do not defrag SSD!) Windows Update (because system will be frozen)
Lower Recycle Bin to 200MB to save space on SSD and reduce writes.
Install additional Themes and setup background rotation and power savings
Install Desktop Gadgets and configure icons, menus and explorer
Check Pagefile location and size (Keep it on SSD for faster OS or on "Data" drive for more space)
Check graphics card settings (highest res), Processor settings and perhaps SSD configuration
Install System Tools:
Deep Freeze
Rollback RX
CCleaner (To clean registry from installation trash
Fraps (nessecary in 3D games to setup graphics)
Daemon Tools Lite (to mount .iso files)
DirectX
(game edition)
Redistributable packages
7zip
Sandboxie
File Verifier++
USBDLM Get VMWare Player (if you want to try new OS Windows 8)
Check Windows 7 install list Run all system tools and do setup Set all programs auto update to off Enable Internet Explorer in sandbox Create a Sandbox folder on "Data" drive Run CCleaner Create System Image and save it to "Data" drive Freeze System with DF and Rollback RX Later after you have installed applications/games on "Data" drive run File Verifier++ and create integrity list.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After installing the new stuff here's some additional notes:
1. About USBDLM: I couldn't figure it out, the interface is really bad. But it is possible to redirect Users folder away from SSD drive. But since my harddisk is a portable USB, if the drive letter somehow is changed or unavailable during windows boot, Windows
won't be able to find Users folder.
Apparently USBDLM service was installed but it didn't change drive letter as specified in .ini, and when I disabled service, Windows booted but it was impossible to login!
If you get the problem of not being able to login after moving Users folder etc. then login with Safe Boot by pressing F8 and copy back Users folder to C, do profile relocator again, and after new safe boot create a new account, reboot and login with
new account. It's just a pity that windows 7 is not more flexible about portable users folder.
2. Rocket Score of 6.9 (of 7.9) with Windows Experience Index!
The SSD scores 7.1 and the intel i7 processor scores 7.6 which makes the OS rocket fast. The graphics GTS 450 scores 6.9 which is great compared to more expensive cards. It just sounds like sitting in a jetplane, so I had to stuff in the PC in a big
closet with some soft pillow near to lower the noise. When you have a PC customized it's hard to see how much noise it will make.
Free Windows Admin Tool Kit Click here and download it now
July 22nd, 2012 10:23am
60 GB SSD Drive Labeled "System" C:
System Programs (maybe 20-40 GB)
Pagefile (Keeping the pagefile on SSD will probably make OS faster)
--------
Secured by a System Image and :
Deep Freeze (anti virus)
Rollback Rx (anti bug)
(Shadow Defender is not compatible with SSD & TRIM)
1 TB USB v3.0 Labeled "Data" D:
System Image Backup
Applications/Games
Users Folder
Sandbox Folder (for preinstallations)
--------
Secured by Sandboxie and File Verifier++ and a Virus Scanner on Downloads:
AVZ
Kaspersky Virus Removal Tool
ClamWin
After Windows 7 installation have all driver updates from your motherboard vendor ready
Enable display of hidden folders and files in explorer and to check what temporary folders are created during drivers update
Update BIOS and check BIOS settings (that it supports virtual machine etc.)
And set use of AHCI (not IDE) for SSD
Update Drivers (processor, SSD, SATA, USB etc; old processor driver might not support SSD TRIM function)
Check in system that all hardware & drivers are working and delete again temporary folders created during updates
Use USBDLM to secure a letter for the drive that Users folder is to be redirected to
Redirect Users folder to "Data" drive as described
here or do it using a program like
Profile Relocator.
Turn off:
Indexing (probably useless if system is frozen with DF or Rollback RX) Windows Restore (it has issues with SSD TRIM & to use less space on SSD) Hibernation Option (SSD boot should be just as fast) Enter cmd (command prompt): powercfg -h off
Splash Screen: Winkey + R, type MSConfig and enable NO GUI Boot Prefetch, Superfetch, Boottrace for SSD in regedit: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\SessionManager\MemoryManager\PrefetchParameters and set them to 0
Windows Defender Defrag schedule for SSD drive (do not defrag SSD!) Windows Update (because system will be frozen)
Lower Recycle Bin to 200MB to save space on SSD and reduce writes.
Install additional Themes and setup background rotation and power savings
Install Desktop Gadgets and configure icons, menus and explorer
Check Pagefile location and size (Keep it on SSD for faster OS or on "Data" drive for more space)
Check graphics card settings (highest res), Processor settings and perhaps SSD configuration
Install System Tools:
Deep Freeze
Rollback RX
CCleaner (To clean registry from installation trash
Fraps (nessecary in 3D games to setup graphics)
Daemon Tools Lite (to mount .iso files)
DirectX
(game edition)
Redistributable packages
7zip
Sandboxie
File Verifier++
USBDLM Get VMWare Player (if you want to try new OS Windows 8)
Check Windows 7 install list Run all system tools and do setup Set all programs auto update to off Enable Internet Explorer in sandbox Create a Sandbox folder on "Data" drive Run CCleaner Create System Image and save it to "Data" drive Freeze System with DF and Rollback RX Later after you have installed applications/games on "Data" drive run File Verifier++ and create integrity list.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After installing the new stuff here's some additional notes:
1. About USBDLM: I couldn't figure it out, the interface is really bad. But it is possible to redirect Users folder away from SSD drive. But since my harddisk is a portable USB, if the drive letter somehow is changed or unavailable during windows boot, Windows
won't be able to find Users folder.
Apparently USBDLM service was installed but it didn't change drive letter as specified in .ini, and when I disabled service, Windows booted but it was impossible to login!
If you get the problem of not being able to login after moving Users folder etc. then login with Safe Boot by pressing F8 and copy back Users folder to C, do profile relocator again, and after new safe boot create a new account, reboot and login with
new account. It's just a pity that windows 7 is not more flexible about portable users folder.
2. Rocket Score of 6.9 (of 7.9) with Windows Experience Index!
The SSD scores 7.1 and the intel i7 processor scores 7.6 which makes the OS rocket fast. The graphics GTS 450 scores 6.9 which is great compared to more expensive cards. It just sounds like sitting in a jetplane, so I had to stuff in the PC in a big
closet with some soft pillow near to lower the noise. When you have a PC customized it's hard to see how much noise it will make.
3. Creating a System Image fails in windows 7 when using Rollback Rx. Windows doesn't acknowledge the error, it just promt (everytime) something about too little space for backup, which was not a problem before installing RB. But Rollback Rx is a great system
tool with clear advantage compared to system restore or deep freeze.
July 22nd, 2012 10:23am
60 GB SSD Drive Labeled "System" C:
System Programs (maybe 20-40 GB)
Pagefile (Keeping the pagefile on SSD will probably make OS faster)
--------
Secured by a System Image and :
Deep Freeze (anti virus)
Rollback Rx (anti bug)
(Shadow Defender is not compatible with SSD & TRIM)
1 TB USB v3.0 Labeled "Data" D:
System Image Backup
Applications/Games
Users Folder
Sandbox Folder (for preinstallations)
--------
Secured by Sandboxie and File Verifier++ and a Virus Scanner on Downloads:
AVZ
Kaspersky Virus Removal Tool
ClamWin
After Windows 7 installation have all driver updates from your motherboard vendor ready
Enable display of hidden folders and files in explorer and to check what temporary folders are created during drivers update
Update BIOS and check BIOS settings (that it supports virtual machine etc.)
And set use of AHCI (not IDE) for SSD
Update Drivers (processor, SSD, SATA, USB etc; old processor driver might not support SSD TRIM function)
Check in system that all hardware & drivers are working and delete again temporary folders created during updates
Use USBDLM to secure a letter for the drive that Users folder is to be redirected to
Redirect Users folder to "Data" drive as described
here or do it using a program like
Profile Relocator.
Turn off:
Indexing (probably useless if system is frozen with DF or Rollback RX) Windows Restore (it has issues with SSD TRIM & to use less space on SSD) Hibernation Option (SSD boot should be just as fast) Enter cmd (command prompt): powercfg -h off
Splash Screen: Winkey + R, type MSConfig and enable NO GUI Boot Prefetch, Superfetch, Boottrace for SSD in regedit: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\SessionManager\MemoryManager\PrefetchParameters and set them to 0
Windows Defender Defrag schedule for SSD drive (do not defrag SSD!) Windows Update (because system will be frozen)
Lower Recycle Bin to 200MB to save space on SSD and reduce writes.
Install additional Themes and setup background rotation and power savings
Install Desktop Gadgets and configure icons, menus and explorer
Check Pagefile location and size (Keep it on SSD for faster OS or on "Data" drive for more space)
Check graphics card settings (highest res), Processor settings and perhaps SSD configuration
Install System Tools:
Deep Freeze
Rollback RX
CCleaner (To clean registry from installation trash
Fraps (nessecary in 3D games to setup graphics)
Daemon Tools Lite (to mount .iso files)
DirectX
(game edition)
Redistributable packages
7zip
Sandboxie
File Verifier++
USBDLM Get VMWare Player (if you want to try new OS Windows 8)
Check Windows 7 install list Run all system tools and do setup Set all programs auto update to off Enable Internet Explorer in sandbox Create a Sandbox folder on "Data" drive Run CCleaner Create System Image and save it to "Data" drive Freeze System with DF and Rollback RX Later after you have installed applications/games on "Data" drive run File Verifier++ and create integrity list.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After installing the new stuff here's some additional notes:
1. About USBDLM: I couldn't figure it out, the interface is really bad. But it is possible to redirect Users folder away from SSD drive. But since my harddisk is a portable USB, if the drive letter somehow is changed or unavailable during windows boot, Windows
won't be able to find Users folder.
Apparently USBDLM service was installed but it didn't change drive letter as specified in .ini, and when I disabled service, Windows booted but it was impossible to login!
If you get the problem of not being able to login after moving Users folder etc. then login with Safe Boot by pressing F8 and copy back Users folder to C, do profile relocator again, and after new safe boot create a new account, reboot and login with
new account. It's just a pity that windows 7 is not more flexible about portable users folder.
2. Rocket Score of 6.9 (of 7.9) with Windows Experience Index!
The SSD scores 7.1 and the intel i7 processor scores 7.6 which makes the OS rocket fast. The graphics GTS 450 scores 6.9 which is great compared to more expensive cards. It just sounds like sitting in a jetplane, so I had to stuff in the PC in a big
closet with some soft pillow near to lower the noise. When you have a PC customized it's hard to see how much noise it will make.
3. Creating a System Image fails in windows 7 when using Rollback Rx. Windows doesn't acknowledge the error, it just promt (everytime) something about too little space for backup, which was not a problem before installing RB. But Rollback Rx is a great system
tool with clear advantage compared to system restore or deep freeze.
Review on security: About Rollback Rx, Windows and SSD:
I think this system configuration for personal home computer is the most secure I've seen.
- With Rollback Rx 9.1 there are just two problems: 1) Its interface doesn't work 100% when you set text size larger (in control panel - appearance ...) 2) You have to remember to rollback to a secure snapshot before making updates.
Before I usually always just made a system image, so if anything went wrong, I would have to restore it and then reinstall any upgrades again. And I never used restore points, they just seem to make things worse with menu links to missing programs etc. But
it takes more time and space to make system images, this is 10x better!
- Likewise Sandboxie seems 10x better than firewall and antivirus. Just run your internet browser in a sandbox. As example I tried to run a game in a sandbox and then save the progress. The result was
that when running the game again outside the sandbox, the progress with the latest save was gone!
- SSD drive is a serious system upgrade for your computer, so it would be nice with an upgrade to windows 7 where user data and applications and everything else than the system would have a different default location than the SSD drive; because the system drive
is faster and easier to maintain and restore separated. There is therefore no point in buying a big size SSD drive. Some companies install software launchers (ubisoft game launcher, rockstar games/social club, etc) in default programs folder. They are not
part of the pc system and the respective software usually won't start without their launcher, so it would be nice with a windows upgrade that makes default user and programs folder locations customizable. Windows 8 is not an upgrade, if you're a gamer. It
would be more appropriate to call it windows ts (touchscreen).
If you made an upgrade for windows 7 it would also be nice, if you "sandboxed" none-system application changes to system. Fx. with Rollback Rx you can click a device driver that you might have tried to upgrade and rollback to previous version. Because it might
be a bug or a virus a software infect on the system. Most applications run fine after all their changes to menu start and registry have been deleted. But some just won't start fx. without a license code shown in registry. And since they are not system they
should be "sandboxed".
Free Windows Admin Tool Kit Click here and download it now
July 22nd, 2012 10:23am
60 GB SSD Drive Labeled "System" C:
System Programs (maybe 20-40 GB)
Pagefile (Keeping the pagefile on SSD will probably make OS faster)
--------
Secured by a System Image and :
Deep Freeze (anti virus)
Rollback Rx (anti bug)
(Shadow Defender is not compatible with SSD & TRIM)
1 TB USB v3.0 Labeled "Data" D:
System Image Backup
Applications/Games
Users Folder
Sandbox Folder (for preinstallations)
--------
Secured by Sandboxie and File Verifier++ and a Virus Scanner on Downloads:
AVZ
Kaspersky Virus Removal Tool
ClamWin
After Windows 7 installation have all driver updates from your motherboard vendor ready
Enable display of hidden folders and files in explorer and to check what temporary folders are created during drivers update
Update BIOS and check BIOS settings (that it supports virtual machine etc.)
And set use of AHCI (not IDE) for SSD
Update Drivers (processor, SSD, SATA, USB etc; old processor driver might not support SSD TRIM function)
Check in system that all hardware & drivers are working and delete again temporary folders created during updates
Use USBDLM to secure a letter for the drive that Users folder is to be redirected to
Redirect Users folder to "Data" drive as described
here.
Turn off:
Indexing (probably useless if system is frozen with DF or Rollback RX)Windows Restore (it has issues with SSD TRIM & to use less space on SSD)Hibernation Option (SSD boot should be just as fast) Enter cmd (command prompt): powercfg -h offSplash Screen: Winkey + R, type MSConfig and enable NO GUI BootPrefetch, Superfetch, Boottrace for SSD in regedit: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\SessionManager\MemoryManager\PrefetchParameters and set them to 0Windows DefenderDefrag schedule for SSD drive (do not defrag SSD!)Windows Update (because system will be frozen)
Lower Recycle Bin to 200MB to save space on SSD and reduce writes.
Install additional Themes and setup background rotation and power savings
Install Desktop Gadgets and configure icons, menus and explorer
Check Pagefile location and size (Keep it on SSD for faster OS or on "Data" drive for more space)
Check graphics card settings (highest res), Processor settings and perhaps SSD configuration
Install System Tools:
Deep Freeze
Rollback RX
CCleaner (To clean registry from installation trash
Fraps (nessecary in 3D games to setup graphics)
Daemon Tools Lite (to mount .iso files)
DirectX
(game edition)
Redistributable packages
7zip
Sandboxie
File Verifier++
USBDLMGet VMWare Player (if you want to try new OS Windows 8)
Check Windows 7 install listRun all system tools and do setupSet all programs auto update to offEnable Internet Explorer in sandboxCreate a Sandbox folder on "Data" driveRun CCleanerCreate System Image and save it to "Data" driveFreeze System with DF and Rollback RXLater after you have installed applications/games on "Data" drive run File Verifier++ and create integrity list<//li>
July 22nd, 2012 10:25am