Trying to understand the built-in Backup/Restore under my new Win 7 machine. Confused on whether it keeps "versions" of a system image.I want to create "system image" backups of my C: drive only, including the OS and every application program I've installed. And I want to keep several versions, making one every 5 to 7 days, and going back a couple months. Been doing that on XP with Acronis TrueImage for years. All my data is on secondary drives and backed up separately. I don't want Win7 backup to go after my user data.I've used Win7 Backup to "Create a system image" and have done that 4 or 5 times in a week as I built up the new system. When I look at the folder/file structure I see a bunch of small files and two large "vhd" files. Those vhd files change in size after each backup, but just a little bit. Nothing looks like a new full backup.Documentation hints that versions are available, depending on disk space. But where are they, and how can I see them? The only view I can find is to launch Backup and click "manage space". When I do that I see only one system image in the usage summary, even after multiple backups. Plus the message, "System images are not being created automatically, but at least one previous system image is stored at this location.""At least one"? How many, what dates?I figured maybe it would tell me when I did a restore, so I started down that path. But I got to a dialogue that said my system would be restarted to do the restore, so I had to abort out of fear it would take off on its own.I've had to do 5 or 6 restores of XP over the last 2 years due to virus infections. Some of those viruses plant themselves a week or a month before they become active. So if you restore the lastest system image, the virus may still be there. Sometimes you have to go back quite a ways. Can Win7 Backup do that?

I have had the same questions, so don't feel bad. The documentation is quite vague on what to expect.By golly I'm going to get to the bottom of just what's happening by restoring a virtual machine for which I have had the Windows 7 Backup facilities running for some time. There's nothing like actually going through it to educate one on what to expect when a real disaster strikes. When I do find the time (very soon I hope) I'll post the results here, including screen grabs.-Noel

Aren't Backup and Restore two different things? Restore takes you to a previous point. The main thing about restore is the registry at time of creation of Restore Point. It retains downloads, new files and file modifications which have occurred since the creation of the Restore Point. It very well can "maintain" the existence of a virus on the system. It's good for "undoing" a bad install of an application for example. Backup though overwrites the whole disc with the disc image as it existed at time of creation of Backup file. All changes since the Backup file was created no longer exist. This removes all (most) chances of a virus surviving a Backup overwrite as long as the virus was acquired after the Backup file was created. Agree or disagree?

Sorry for any terminology confusion. Backup and restore are often used together in the industry to mean saving things and recovering those saved things. In my post above I mean to go through the process of recovering a system using data saved in a previous backup. -Noel

From another thread I came across http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/Back-up-and-restore-frequently-asked-questions Now we have "File Backup" & "System Image Backup" and "Restore Points" & "Previous Versions". If I'm understanding current nomenclature, Backups can be anywhere but Restore Points and Previous Versions have to occur on the source disc as a shadow; I think! :) Seems they gave us lots of tools to work with. Gotta appreciate that.

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 15:26:41 +0000, hmmmm..... wrote:> Aren't Backup and Restore two different things? Yes. They are the opposite of each other.> Restore takes you to a previous point. The main thing about restore is the registry at time of creation of Restore Point. It retains downloads, new files and file modifications which have occurred since the creation of the Restore Point. It very well can "maintain" the existence of a virus on the system. It's good for "undoing" a bad install of an application for example.You are describing what is called "System Restore," not "restore" ingeneral. > Backup though overwrites the whole disc with the disc image as it existed at time of creation of Backup file.No. Two points here:1. You are describing *restoring* a backup file. Backup is the processof *creating* such a file.2. A backup does *not* have to be a disk image. A backup is simply acopy--any kind of copy--of something that's important to you. You canback up a single file, a bunch of files, a folder, a bunch of folders,the whole disk drive, all the disk drives on your system, etc. What ison the backup is up to you. Moreover, an *image* is only one kind ofbackup.>All changes since the Backup file was created no longer exist. Again, see the above. That's true when the backup is *restored*, andonly *if* the backup is of the whole disk, whether or not it's animage backup. But it's not necessarily true if what was backed up wasless than the whole disk.> This removes all (most) chances of a virus surviving a Backup overwrite as long as the virus was acquired after the Backup file was created.Again, that's only right if the entire disk was backed up and thenrestored.> Agree or disagree? Disagree. See the above.Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003Ken Blake

I agree that Backup and Restore are opposites of each other, when speaking of Backups, and that users can backup a single file or an entire disc. Any of these backups can be stored anywhere and users have full control of if, when, what, how often, etc. backups occur. As long as Backup files are stored on a different disc, the files survive primary disc failure. But restoring a backup is not the same as Restore Points and Previous Versions. Microsoft chose the nomenclature, not me. Restore Point files and Previous Versions files are stored on the subject disc. A Restore Point is not going to accomplish the same as a Previous Version will accomplish. A Restore Point generally restores the registry while a Previous Version is a shadow copy of how the disc existed at the time of the Previous Version timestamp. Neither of these tools can survive disc failure. I don't think we disagreed on how each works; there was just a little confusion over the nomenclature. Do you agree with the above?

Seems like we have lost the original question in this post regarding whether Windows 7 retains a history of system images. I'm running into the same issue with my recent install of Window 7 Enterprise x64. I've made several system images during the course of setting up my machine, but when I boot to the repair utility I only see the most recent even when I choose the option to select the image. Microsoft claims that Windows saves as many images as it has space for, but it doesn't appear to be doing that for me or at least they are not listed when I attempt to restore from an image. They also claim that you can select an option to retain older images or just the most recent image within the "Manage Windows Backup disk space" utility (Backup and Restore>Manage space) under Change Settings in the System Image section. However, the only options are to retain the most recent image and delete older ones or to delete all images. Am I missing something?

Seems like we have lost the original question in this post regarding whether Windows 7 retains a history of system images. I'm running into the same issue with my recent install of Window 7 Enterprise x64. I've made several system images during the course of setting up my machine, but when I boot to the repair utility I only see the most recent even when I choose the option to select the image. Microsoft claims that Windows saves as many images as it has space for, but it doesn't appear to be doing that for me or at least they are not listed when I attempt to restore from an image. They also claim that you can select an option to retain older images or just the most recent image within the "Manage Windows Backup disk space" utility (Backup and Restore>Manage space) under Change Settings in the System Image section. However, the only options are to retain the most recent image and delete older ones or to delete all images. Am I missing something? I think you are missing something. I told mine to dedicate 50% of my (250GB) drive to this function and I see dozens of images taking up some 48GB of space (so far). I believe it was a setting at install but I could be mistaken; I'm still new to 7.

The OP is not talking about restore points, but System Images, which are made during full fledged backups. -Noel

From the OP... I now believe that Windows 7 Backup will NOT keep multiple versions of a system image. That opinion is based on the fact that no one here or in a couple other forums has shown a specific way it can be done. Today, I went to my local bookstore and grabbed a copy of the 4 inch thick "Windows 7 Guide" by Microsoft Press. I read the 15 pages about Backup/Restore carefully. Nothing there tells me how to keep multiple copies of a system image. In fact, most of that text refers to overwriting or incremental backups. It says incremental backups are made automatically when you backup to a "local" hard drive, internal or external. It implies, however, that you can keep multiple and separate backups when you backup to a network drive because then you can (must) specify a different folder each time. I was curious why, when I backup to a local drive, I can only specify the root (F:, G:, H:) and not a specific folder on the drive. And then get a hodgepodge of files and folders in the root that are never explained and ake little sense. Bottom line - Windows 7 backup and restore is confusing at best, and confusion is an unwelcome emotion when trying to save yourself. I've renewed and updated my Arconis TrueImage license and am now "computing with confidence". P.S. I recently helped a friend recover from an annoying but harmless virus on his XP system (the Goggle redirecting strain). The virus was undetected and unremovable by both Kaspersky and MalwareBytes. Luckily, he had Acronis running weekly backups. But the virus was still present in the first two restores. We had to go back 3 weeks to get a clean restore. So he either failed to notice the virus, or it laid dormant for a while. Multiple, historical system images are essential in todays world.

I came to the same, frustrating conclusion after doing the same research. I'll take a look at Acronis. There are some others that offer free editions that I've seen recommended as well such as Paragon Backup and Restore and Macrium Reflect.

Hear hear, Redcrown. An in-depth explanation from Microsoft would go a LOOONG way toward making us trust what might be a perfectly good Windows 7 backup system. And if you are right about only one system image being stored - and I suspect you are - then it sounds like it would be a good idea to rotate backup media occasionally. Just browsing my backup device (external MyBook) I have what appears to be one and only one system image from this past Sunday at 2:37 am. Performing a restoral of a virtual machine, and actually seeing what it will do, is still on my list of things to do. It's just such an involved process that I simply haven't found the time. -Noel

First off E1 the backup requirements for Windows 7 is a destination that is 1.5 times the system disk. This applies whether the backup target is a USB disk or a server. Now the backup can be one of two ways. There is a full backup which is a snapshot copy of the system. The other is called an incremental backup that appends changes to the full backup so that restores will be more updated. The advantage of incremental backups is speed, at the expense of increased backup storage requirements. If your USB disk runs out, then do a full backup and continue with incremental backups. If your server runs out of space, get a beigger file server or start over with a full backup. Vote if answered or helpful, I am running for Office (joke)! IT/Developer, Windows/Linux/Mainframe

First off E1 the backup requirements for Windows 7 is a destination that is 1.5 times the system disk. This applies whether the backup target is a USB disk or a server. Now the backup can be one of two ways. There is a full backup which is a snapshot copy of the system. The other is called an incremental backup that appends changes to the full backup so that restores will be more updated. The advantage of incremental backups is speed, at the expense of increased backup storage requirements. If your USB disk runs out, then do a full backup and continue with incremental backups. If your server runs out of space, get a beigger file server or start over with a full backup. Vote if answered or helpful, I am running for Office (joke)! IT/Developer, Windows/Linux/Mainframe

Hi all, just want to point out that I notice a different set of options offered under Backup and Restore > Manage space > System image > change settings, depending on whether or not you enable the automatic backup schedule. If you do not enable the automatic schedule it appears the two manage space options allow for either keeping only the most recent image or deleting all images as described prior by medavies. With backup schedule enabled the options then do at least imply you can allow windows to manage the backup and save older image versions, depending on space available on your destination drive. However, windows help/support files indicate only 30 percent of drive space is reserved for images by default and I could not find where that setting can be changed. Still I should have space for 3 images. I have run my backups to a local external 500GB drive manually (i.e. unscheduled) and automatically (scheduled) and only see the most recent image. I am also pretty sure I read in the help/support file that when backing up to a networked drive (win7 professional and greater) you can only save the most recent system image for each client. For the record I am running Win7 home premium, not the more advanced professional or enterprise versions that support network backups. I hope this does not further cloud the issue and would like to know what you think.

I agree that the Microsoft documentation on this is very poor. This link says that it will keep as many system images as it can without using more than 30% of the disk. It also says that you can adjust the settings. However, as pmsal48 points out, if you go to the manage space pane there are only two options: keep the latest system image or delete all existing ones. I'm reluctant to enable automatic backups to see if that changes the available options because I have one critical system image backup that I cannot afford to have overwritten. From what I've read, it seems likely that it might be overwritten, despite what the documentation says should happen. Besides, why on earth should we have to enable automatic backups in order to manage space? When I get time I'll copy the critical system image somewhere else, enable automatic backups and see what happens. This is just typical of Microsoft: obliging its users to mess experimenting to find out something as fundamental as whether or not backups will be overwritten.

Keith_uk I have been running automated backup for 6 months now and can report the following: I still only ever see one system image, i.e. the most recent one on my backup drive that should hold at least several even with the 30% restriction. So I am betting you risk losing your "critical image" if you enable automated backup....be careful buddy! And why the 30% restriction??? The 500GB backup drive I payed for is whittled down to a 150!!! Also, I have still not seen any additional backup periods Microsoft mentions, i.e. my file backups are still being assigned to the original backup period. I assume windows continues just to run incremental backups and has not run a new full backup since the original. I guess that is a not big deal but I am curious what drives this...I mean it sure would be nice to see windows perform as claimed in the documentation. Again for the record I am running Win7 Home Premium. Bye for now....

I have a USB dock, so I use a bare HD and backup with clones of the boot disk. I rotate the disks not unlike tape of old. Any disk is bootable as its a true clone of the system disk. I do it manually as the cloning programs from WDC and Seagate run in the same place CHKDSK runs where the rest of Windows is not loaded. This is the way they make a true clone. Works for me, the cloning also works to move into a bigger disk. So there are all manor of advantage and no real downside. I tried the Windows 7 backup to a large USB disk, no problem. USB is to dodgy for scheduled backups in my experience. I backup my USB disks to a bare high capacity hard disk so that I have an extra layer of protection. I simply use 7-zip and backup my files as its more deterministic than the Windows 7 which tends to coddle the user excessively. Vote if answered or helpful, I am running for Office (joke)! IT/Developer, Windows/Linux/Mainframe I also am a true vegan and I am very good with economics and I used to play chess at 2400++ I have lots of papers on my site for power supplies and video card problems, see the resources section

I have a USB dock, so I use a bare HD and backup with clones of the boot disk. I rotate the disks not unlike tape of old. Any disk is bootable as its a true clone of the system disk. I do it manually as the cloning programs from WDC and Seagate run in the same place CHKDSK runs where the rest of Windows is not loaded. This is the way they make a true clone. Works for me, the cloning also works to move into a bigger disk. So there are all manor of advantage and no real downside. I tried the Windows 7 backup to a large USB disk, no problem. USB is to dodgy for scheduled backups in my experience. I backup my USB disks to a bare high capacity hard disk so that I have an extra layer of protection. I simply use 7-zip and backup my files as its more deterministic than the Windows 7 which tends to coddle the user excessively. Vote if answered or helpful, I am running for Office (joke)! IT/Developer, Windows/Linux/Mainframe I also am a true vegan and I am very good with economics and I used to play chess at 2400++ I have lots of papers on my site for power supplies and video card problems, see the resources section

Seems like we have lost the original question in this post regarding whether Windows 7 retains a history of system images. I'm running into the same issue with my recent install of Window 7 Enterprise x64. I've made several system images during the course of setting up my machine, but when I boot to the repair utility I only see the most recent even when I choose the option to select the image. Microsoft claims that Windows saves as many images as it has space for, but it doesn't appear to be doing that for me or at least they are not listed when I attempt to restore from an image. They also claim that you can select an option to retain older images or just the most recent image within the "Manage Windows Backup disk space" utility (Backup and Restore>Manage space) under Change Settings in the System Image section. However, the only options are to retain the most recent image and delete older ones or to delete all images. Am I missing something? The only way I can see to make this happen is to rename the folder where the system image backup is stored, thus tricking Windows into thinking that there is no system image there at all. When the system goes to look for the directory to store the images (ex. D:\WindowsImageBackup\MyComp-PC\) it will not exist and create a new one. When you want to restore your comp to a previous image you will have to rename the folder back to what Windows will be looking for and you should be all good.