Coming back to my old question, where I have not managed to bring the main idea of my post. http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windows/en-US/15094266-2a3c-46a8-b61b-b1b1a328d2df/high-ppi-support-multiple-monitors-how-it-comes-that-remote-desktop-implements-the-hight-ppi?forum=w8itprogeneral

So here is the Problem:

Windows 8.1 scales horrible some applications, which for some people are the everyday passenger in their work and their free time.

However, for some reason, the "Remote Desktop Connection Manager" has a scaling implementation which works almost perfect on the same resolutions and devices and delivers a sharp image. I don't want to confuse you with my multiple monitor practices like in my post above, where an article from dell's website about how to set up multiple monitors became marked as an answer for my problem... Here are some screenshots which describe the problem just on the same display of my Dell XPS 15 with native resolution of 3200x1800.

Please do not tell me, that the problem can be fixed by setting the scaling factor to 100%, like in this topic. Using 100% size or disabling the scaling option in the compatibility settings just break your eyes! You only can work using magnifier then - it is not how it is supposed to be. It is just a workaround which could work if you use 125% scaling factor, but not on resolutions like mine, where you need 200% scaling in order not to stress your eyes.

So let us see, how RDCM can compete vs Win8 native scaling:

http://skovalev.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/RDCM-vs-Win8-Scaling-Eclipse.png
http://skovalev.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/RDCM-vs-Win8-Scaling-Fraps.png
http://skovalev.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/RDCM-vs-Win8-Scaling-Administration-Win.png
http://skovalev.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/RDCM-vs-Win8-Scaling-Eclipse.png

The difference in the quality (sharpness) are speaking for themselves. While Remote Desktop Connection Manager somehow manages to display graphics in the sharp way, where you don't break your eyes while working with it - normal windows only works properly with software, where developers added the high PPI support. Like you can see on the screenshots, even native "Windows Administration" is not being scaled properly to 200%. The text appears blurry on Win8.1, while it is sharp on RDCM!

Another good example is Eclipse - look at the screenshot - how am I supposed to work with those small images? Don' get irritated that the screenshots are very large and at the first view everything seems to be ok. If you scale the image to 100% - it looks fine on your monitor. But if you have a high PPI monitor - it just looks very small. Here is a good example. Compare the screenshot and the real picture:

Here is the screenshot:
http://skovalev.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Origin-Screeshot.png

And here is the real picuture:
http://skovalev.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Origin-real-picture.jpg

So you understand what I mean, when I say, that you cannot work without a magnifier?

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The other interesting fact is, that normal remote desktop delivered as windows tool does not scale properly either! Or I should better say - it cannot scale at all. The only two possibilities to work with RD are
1st - full screen 3200x1800: http://skovalev.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/RemoteDesktop-3200x1800.jpg
2nd - any other resolution, which cannot be scaled further on....: http://skovalev.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/RemoteDesktop-1600x900.jpg

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The Point

The point is - RDCM seems to use the original 100% (1600x900) resolution on the target machine and scales it up to 200% (3200x1800) on my notebook. I came to this conclusion as I took the screenshot over RDCM on the target machine and checked it resolution - it was 1600x900. And yes - it was scaled properly on my notebook! This screenshot seems to prove my assumption.

http://skovalev.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/RDCM-Scaling-Perfectly-from-1600x900-to-3200x1800.png

To the left you see the original picture (in 1600x900) as being created by the graphics adapter of the target machine. To the right you can see the scaled up picture form the RDCM. Like you can see the picture stays sharp! And sharpness - it is the key not to break your eyes. I can live with sharply drawn pixels, but I cannot work with blurry characters which should make the impression of smooth scaling...

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So, dear Microsoft: Please, implement the RDCM  scaling algorithm and make it native for windows 8.1.

If you manage somehow to start something like Origin in 100% mode and scale it up to 200% using RDCM algorithm - the picture stay sharp - and that is the key. And if you are not sure whether a user need sharpened pixels or blurry smoothness - just make it as an option in control panel and let the user decide himself.

With best regards,
Sergey Kovalev

• Edited by eXti.de Sunday, June 15, 2014 8:34 AM mistake
• Changed type Brandon RecordsModerator Friday, June 27, 2014 3:39 PM Feedback

Sergey, it's more complicated than you think.

The problem is that it's the applications that have to implement the scaling, not the OS.

Consider that many older professional level applications such as Adobe Photoshop don't yet do proper scaling.  With a program that makes many assumptions about screen size, it can be quite difficult (read costly) to re-engineer in later.

Microsoft actually DOES provide applications with the ability to properly scale their windows and controls.  They have for a long time.  My own applications scale properly even on XP. 

It's just that many implementers of applications throughout history have chosen NOT to use the facilities provided, and instead took shortcuts, because they just "knew" how big things would be on the screen and chose to wrangle the pixels themselves.  

High dpi scaling facilities in Windows 8.1 are now available to any application that advertises (via its Manifest) that it is "high dpi aware".

Microsoft also provides the automatic pixel resampling for applications that do NOT understand high dpi scaling.  These are the ones you see as "blurry".

So you really need to pressure the makers of the applications that have failed to properly support high dpi monitors.

 

Dear Noel,

please take a closer look to the screenshots provided: the same application on the same notebook with the same resolution but under RDCM is sharp! It has nothing in common with the application developers who, of course, have the possibility to update their programs to look better in high PPI. I am really talking about old programs that look good on RDMC on my monitor.

So, for some reason RDCM, developed by Microsoft, is able to deliver a sharp picture on exactly the same machine. That makes me believe, that if they manage to implement this scaling algorithm from RDCM into the OS - at least the sharpness problems will be gone and they will regain some of those lost satisfied customers.

Once again: I am talking about microsoft's implemented algorithm which delivers sharp picture, but you still see the pixels - that is no problem. The current scaling solution of the os is to make it feel like it were smooth, but on the cost of sharpness, which breaks my eyes.

Hope now I could describe what I mean.

Frankly, your original post in this thread is complex and doesn't seem to convey just one idea, so I'm sorry if I misinterpreted your intent.  But I'm telling you how the system works, so maybe you can use that information to further your case.

I see that in some of your screenshots you are showing applications that appear to be scaled-up by RDCM using pixel-doubling (a very simple and CPU-efficient scaling algorithm in which a single pixel is repeated in each dimension enough times to effect the scaling).

By contrast, Microsoft's typical GPU-integrated desktop resampling implements a more complex resampling method (possibly Bilinear or Bicubic) intended to smooth edges and be easier on the eyes - but apparently not your eyes. 

I agree with you that it would be good if Microsoft offered a choice of pixel doubling vs. smooth resampling for the automatic desktop resampling.  Honestly I'd probably also choose the former as I don't like fuzzy things either.

But the bottom line is this:  If your application is properly programmed with dpi awareness, I believe it will look right in the most possible places.  Consider this user interface run on desktops set at 100%, 150%, and 200%.  Note that all the icons, controls, etc. scale up properly, but the image preview area uses all the available pixels (i.e., is not itself resampled).

Here at my company we've studied dpi-awareness quite a bit.  It's my opinion that fairly few programmers know how to deal with it properly or completely at this time.

 

Dear Noel,

you are absolutely right. If I am the developer - I should take care of supporting new hardware technologies, operation systems etc. Unfortunately it means a lot of additional work, especially for those developers who are using "older" frameworks.

I am glad to see, that you would also like to see more options from Microsoft. I think at least having the choice in selecting the scaling algorithm would already make one's life a lot of easier.

This scaling issues is among the problems big OEM have to deal with. For example dell already told that win8 is making a lot of trouble, making a lot of customers stay on their old systems. As for me - this scaling issue is critical, especially when working with multiple monitors. Using only 1 high ppi monitor is less the problem, because the most programs already support it. But as soon as you start to use 2nd or 3rd monitor with lesser density, the os has to scale each time you move a window to the other monitor. And here are much more scaling issues, I could actually create another topic about it (only WinRT / Modern UI applications scale properly)

So yes, I would highly appreciate to have the option, where I can choose the scaling algorithm: the one of RDCM and the one like it is right now. Fuzzy and blurry things are really annoying.

Microsoft - please - take a look at this topic and add new scaling options, since they were already implemented in RDCM.

Hi,

Thanks for all of your feedback and suggestions, I would record and  submit your request.

Have a nice day!

I do believe I've found an example of a hybrid implementation. I do not understand how it came to be and if I am interpreting it correctly. But I think that Minolta printing preferences user interface is dpi unaware and is scaled by windows by bitmap resizing. But some dropdown settings are scaled by windows differently and their values do not fit in their allocated space. Or someone at Minolta just plain messed up. The end-result:

I do not believe that we can count on developers making everything just right for windows. More control for the end-user should be welcome. The multi-monitor setup options need immediate fixing though - it's borderline unusable if one of the extended displays is high dpi.

I can't quite tell, but do I see multiple different fonts in that dialog?  That's kind of poor design.

The Minolta people are apparently not properly calculating dialog unit height and width, as it should be tied to the font size.  The dialog unit should be used for control layout, and the DLU - pixel conversion should used for all operations that require pixel coordinates.  If it's done right, fonts should always fit.

In the larger sense, extrapolating form some points above... 

Running multiple monitors at different pixel densities is something to avoid if extended desktop operation from display to display is important to you.  Maybe in a few more versions Microsoft will get multi-monitor support completely squared away so you can mix and match pixel densities at will.  But that reality is not here yet.

For what it's worth, not long ago I bought a new monitor and paid special attention to matching the pixel density of my existing two monitors.  Now I have those two older 1200 x 1600 monitors turned up sideways next to the new 2540 x 1600 monitor.  They are all at 100 ppi, and my desktop experience is seamless and quite pleasant.

 

Pff.. we are writing the 2015... and the RDCM-Scaling is still not implemented in windows??? What the?? Skype for windows is still not usable like many many other programms... cmon microsoft

Out of curiosity, what parts of Skype can't you see?  The chat window font is settable, and I would have thought the menus would follow the desktop setting.  I haven't tested it at anything other than 100% myself as I have 100 ppi monitors.  And of course there's the Metro/Modern version of Skype.

-Noel

Modern version of skype cannot share screen... which makes it totally unproductive for me :(

but back to the topic: does anybody has any idea how RDCM manages to get clean graphics and how to make windows to do the same?

Anyone know if this will be fixed in Window 10?

I do a lot of presentations for work and connect my laptop to an external monitor.....the contant re-setting of the screen resolution and signing-out is a PAIN !! I'm temped to uninstall Windows8 and install Windows7 as I don't have this problem on my W7 laptop